Android 2.3 Gingerbread, 3.0 Honeycomb rumors and facts

[andrew.barr]

For too long software developers have relied on PCs getting faster CPUs and more memory as an excuse to write crappy software. It's become such an epedemic that now you're seeing pressure on smartphone and tablet makers to have *at least* a gig of RAM in their devices, something that, even if you subscribe to the questionable notion that the growth of software is just a function of time, is ludicrous. We don't need cache RAM and Linux isn't the horrid memory hog Windows NT has always been and always will be. There is no. Reason. At. All. For these devices to have that kind of memory.

A poster child for what happens when you bet the farm on the continued hegemony of Windows-based PeeCees is Flash. It will never work on tablets and that's not going to change. Even with the ridiculous hand-holding that Adobe does with OEMs, and the emergence of PC-like GPUs (I'm looking at you nVidia) on ARM, it's never, ever, ever going to "work", especially to someone who doesn't know any better.

GPU acceleration is not a panacea and I really doubt that Flash is spending most of it's time drawing on the framebuffer. So you send some OpenGL primitives or some partially-decoded video to the GPU and it does the rest. That's nice, but what probably kills Flash on low-power devices is ActionScript. Combine a rotten language with the brains of PHP-addled "web developers" and you have a recipe for massive power consumption.

On that note, it is interesting what happened to Jazelle on ARM. They don't talk about that anymore, and it's not in new ARM cores. No one ever used it, mainly because ARM Ltd. simply refused to tell anyone *how it worked* without getting gobs of cash in return. Some technology of that nature might be interesting in terms of trying to patch over the nastiness of ECMAScript.

The short-term solution is for developers interested in the mobile market to provide another version of whatever Flash based application you want to use. The long-term solution is to give up on Flash on embedded devices, because it's never going to work.

[Farsquidge]

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And on that note, I put on my clogs, get on my horse and cart because the sundial says It's time to plough the fields...

[techguy]

Someone just added very recently on YouTube that they were able to install Gingerbread using Cyanogen mod...no joke.

I posted the link below for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOeW8LbGTPM

[MarcusMarcus]

Someone just added very recently on YouTube that they were able to install Gingerbread using Cyanogen mod...no joke.

I posted the link below for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOeW8LbGTPM

Here are instructions to install
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthr ... ?t=1139154

[Harfainx]

Someone just added very recently on YouTube that they were able to install Gingerbread using Cyanogen mod...no joke.

I posted the link below for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOeW8LbGTPM

http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=54201

[yankee]

what does nook color have that Archos doesn't. They can get honeycomb on a sd card..nice idea

[FZelle]

They have more people doing the porting than complaining.

But we have an alpha of gb.

[Todd6677]

They have more people doing the porting than complaining.

But we have an alpha of gb.

LOL... best comment ever!

[magnus33]

2.3 was always able to run on gen 8 hardware since there is nothing in it that would prevent that.
Its always has improvement over frozen yogurt that would make it worth the upgrade.

Well we get i unlikely but still remotely possible due to the improvements.
More likely it well come from the modding end rather then through archos.

This of course kills the warranty.

At present they got bugs to fix in the present firmware.
They all so have to fix the lack of wireless n in the gen 8 hardware since this can cause them huge problems.
You can't advertise a device having wireless n and then not deliver.
That would leave them open to all kinds of fines and suits.

If i where them i be pushing very hard to fix that little bug and avoid the boatload of trouble it promises .

The gingerbread they can ignore since it was never promised in anyway.

[FZelle]

we had the friutless discussion about wlan-n alot, and everytime the conclusion was,
archos has wlan n and you are just expecting the wrong thing.
please search the forum.

[magnus33]

we had the friutless discussion about wlan-n alot, and everytime the conclusion was,
archos has wlan n and you are just expecting the wrong thing.
please search the forum.

There are specific requirements for hardware to be wireless N certified and the archos doesn't meet them.
Its as plain as that and don't go telling people to search the forum.

To make it clearly understood

802.11g supports bandwidth up to 54 Mbps (presently all that the newer 43 does among others)
802.11n connections should support data rates of over 100 Mbps

You can not advertise a device has having 802.11n unless it gets a minimum 100 Mbps. (they state wireless n and not combatable with)
Now the 43 shows that its connects at about 105 to 120 Mbps it falls to 54 Mbps so it should be possible to get the standard connection speed of 105 that most android do. (that have wireless N)

Which means that archos has to get the units with wireless N up to speed or they risk major trouble for false advertisement.

Since the hardware seems to support the speeds it seems archos was not intending this result and is likely working to get things up to speed (pun intended).
Its also just plain common sense since i am sure they don't want to get into legal troubles because of it.

Rather then trying to port over gingerbread (unless this would fix the issue).
Not to say they wont or aren't but the wireless issue has to take priority from a business stand point.

[FZelle]

As i said, you are missinformed and expext the wrong thing.
Wlan-n is a protokoll and physical spec that is clearly meet by the archos.

there is no need for >100mbit to be N compatible.
The archos can talk the protokoll and therefor is able to work in a N only network.

[magnus33]

As i said, you are missinformed and expext the wrong thing.
Wlan-n is a protokoll and physical spec that is clearly meet by the archos.

there is no need for >100mbit to be N compatible.
The archos can talk the protokoll and therefor is able to work in a N only network.

As i said your wrong.
Let me explain this so you can understand.
I work in the broadband industry and have so for over 34 years and there are certain requirement by law that have to be meet before you can call yourself wireless b/g or n .
You don't get to slap and hardware together and call it wireless n.

Of course by your view the whole wireless thing is just a suggestion and companies can do as they please.
And we have all these routers and adapters that use wireless n with a top speed below 100mbps..ohh wait there aren't any made that way.

Please read up on the subject.
The 802.11n standard was finalized and it required seven years and a lot of government approval before it was.
I usually don't resort to sarcasm but you are so off base its funny..its like a chef talking about how brain surgery works a subject he clearly doesn't understand.
The only thing you got correct is that there is a wireless n protocol.
You just have no clue about anything about wireless n or b/g for that matter.
Lord there one of you experts at every company we have to trouble shoot.

Now i suggest if you want to have further fruitless discussion about this you start your own thread and leave this to bug reports as it should be.

[MarcusMarcus]

If my tablet does not support wireless n, how does it connect to my wireless n only network? I never seen them advertise a certain speed or even wireless n speed, just wireless n compatibly, and it is certainly compatible with my wireless n only network.

[magnus33]

If my tablet does not support wireless n, how does it connect to my wireless n only network? I never seen them advertise a certain speed or even wireless n speed, just wireless n compatibly, and it is certainly compatible with my wireless n only network.

Its clear archos intended the 43 (example) to connect as any wireless n tablet or phone would.
The archos devices actually do connect at 105 Mbps but quickly falls to 54Mbps.
Ever try stream 720p on g speeds?

There are wireless n compatible devices that can connect to N 2.4ghz at g speeds but good luck finding them since there rarer then a honest politician.

By law for a device to be certified wireless n it has to be capable of the bare minimum of 100Mbps.
Which is why most n phones and tablets do 105..just barely but it does and its cheap.

In archos case it a driver or firmware issue and i leaning towards the second since tell recently there devices haven't used wireless n.
So due to a bug it defaults back to its top speed set for wireless g i suspect.

So in simple terms you have a wireless n device capable of the standard wireless n phones speeds of 105Mbps but dad left a wrench in the car engine limiting it to 54 miles a hour.
Once they fix that it should do the speeds as any android phone does.

It hardly the first bug in the firmware just one of the larger ones.

Ps.. I should mention no max speeds is ever guaranteed since a lot of it depends on your wireless environment.
With little interference say 10 feet away 105 Mbps should be easily gotten.
At the same distance with say a microwave going or 20 feet away and the speeds drop to say around 75Mbps.
The max certified speeds doesn't guarantee speed its just what it can get under ideal condition's.

[FZelle]

Thank you for the compliments.

1. An IEEE specification is no law.
2. In the specs to the MCS it says that an AP has to support at least values 0-15 which would be 6.5 to 130 mbit/s, but devices have to support 0-7 which would mean 6.5 to 65 mbit/s.
The Archos is no AP.

[magnus33]

Thank you for the compliments.

1. An IEEE specification is no law.
2. In the specs to the MCS it says that an AP has to support at least values 0-15 which would be 6.5 to 130 mbit/s, but devices have to support 0-7 which would mean 6.5 to 65 mbit/s.
The Archos is no AP.

Clearly you can't or wont understand.
From a common sense prescriptive that sort of scary since the evidence is rather overwhelming.
Although for you wireless N is just a protocol and didn't take 7 years plus a ridiculously number of government departments.

But the real kicker is that the wireless chip in this was designed to work like any or android wireless N device and archos has admitted to there being a bug.
If you don't believe the concrete facts you can just ask them.

[Bouldergeek]

I believe that the 802.11n issue is that the Archos Gen 8 only supports 2.4GHz while many access points run at 5GHz for N.

In my home with 2.4 Ghz 802.11G and 5Ghz 802.11N, my old HTC Evo connected at N speeds, since it spoke 5GHz after the 2.2 FroYo upgrade. However, "N" devices like the Archos and my new HTC Thunderbolt do not, since they only have 2.4GHz radios.

[Ate_Bit]

I must admit I was really surprised to find this mentioned by ARCHOS on facebook.

When asked if Gen8 would see anything beyond Android 2.2 OSes, the response was...
"Official ARCHOS, Inc. ÔÇÄ@Glen, it won't go to 3.0, but 2.3 is a possibility. I know nothing has been finalized yet though."

As hard as it was to get any response on the RAM in their units, I can't believe they would leave a hint that anything might be in the works for Gen8.

It was found on FB under this post "Hands-On SlashGear Review with CF Benchmark and Video"

[Ach]

I must admit I was really surprised to find this mentioned by ARCHOS on facebook.

When asked if Gen8 would see anything beyond Android 2.2 OSes, the response was...
"Official ARCHOS, Inc. ÔÇÄ@Glen, it won't go to 3.0, but 2.3 is a possibility. I know nothing has been finalized yet though."

As hard as it was to get any response on the RAM in their units, I can't believe they would leave a hint that anything might be in the works for Gen8.

It was found on FB under this post "Hands-On SlashGear Review with CF Benchmark and Video"

How much ram is taken used up by Froyo?


They confirmed on facebook that Honeycomb uses about 90 mb on the Gen 9.