My response to missleading infromation about the Xoom.

[Rockstar]

To bring everyone up to speed here is my original post in response to this from Charbax:

Charbax wrote in this thread http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.p ... 95#p335295:

"10.2 might be for Honeycomb, well then let's get Honeycomb officially on our tablets, that'll make for a good 3.0 firmware. As far as I know, though, Honeycomb source code is not yet released in the open. But it should be out the same day as Xoom."

The key words here are "But it should be out the same day as Xoom."

I posted this in response:

"The Xoom is already out, every store here in my local area have them and are in stock, I looked at one this past weekend...and I must say I am really impressed with the quality and performance of the product, and now with the A101 being $369.99+$30.00(16ig MicrsoSD)=$399.99, vs. the $599.99 of the 32gig Xoom is not looking like the A101 is such a deal any more. If I was looking at tablets now and compared the two the Xoom would be by far the better deal. I don't want to hear about how much you'll be paying over two years of contract vs. no contract as if your buying something like this you'll would buy the internet anyway, that can't be configured in to the tablet. Also if something happens to it, screen cracks, stops working, for the insurance will cover it, for $80.00, with $400.00 your just plain out of luck. Anyway that's off topic, the Xoom is out and is in stores and the Honeycomb source code has not been released yet."

He then got very defensive accusing me of putting misleading information of which I did not, and then responded with this:

"Google said they'll release the source code and updated CDD the day Xoom is out. It should be any day now, I guess they need to put finishing touches to it before release. And the corrent pricing is like this, A101IT is $299 MSRP and Xoom is $799 MSRP, nearly 3x more expensive, nearly 2x heavier, nearly 2x fatter, no kick-stand. Don't write misleading stuff in here please."

So now here is my proof:

Your numbers are completely misleading.

As I stated my numbers are NOT misleading! I was trying to compare as close to each other as I could. The Xoom has 32gigs of memory. So the 16gig A101 IS IN FACT $369.99, if you aslo buy a 16gig SD card to give each device the same memory you would have brought up the Archos price tag to $399.99. You keep throwing out the 8gig $299. price and you can't compare a 8gig device against a 32gig it's not fair.

Your numbers are completely misleading. Don't waste my time. A101IT is $299 480gr, Xoom is $799 730gr. End of story.

Here are my numbers:
Archos $369.99: https://store.archos.com/archos-interne ... -5005.html(select 16gig)
16gig micro SD$30.00: http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-MicroSD- ... 362&sr=8-4
TOTAL COST FOR a 32gig A101 $399.99

So what, Archos has sold many more Gen8 than Motorola has sold xoom.

No need to be defensive, I was just saying that the ONE store I was at...had it's self sold over a hundred units alone. There are tens of thousands of stores nationwide, not to mention web sales. I was just speaking fro ONE store.

2-year contract and over $1500 for cellular...

$29.99 a month for unlimited acess is hardly $1500. $29.99*24=$719.76 in two years for cellular service NOT $1500.

it's very unlikely that the user is going to even use that 3G connection lots as 10" tablets mostly stay at home and at home you have wifi.

This statement is just ludicrous, as these are PORTABLE devices meant to be taken on the road, if people were intending to only use them at home they would, 1.) Not care about battery life as when it starts to get low they could just plug it in, and 2.) Not be asking how to tether their cell phones to get internet, and with all the threads people here are asking how to tether using a cell phone I think it would be safe to say that if the Archos came with a 3g option about 70% would probably sign up to have internet access with a cell phone provider in order to have internet all the time.

[Arkiv]

Obviously I can only speak for myself. Some of your points have a certain logic, but really you cannot make an "apples to apples" price comparison between the A101 and the Xoom. Saying you need to add an SD card doesn't begin to make the two equivalent. An A101 isn't a Xoom; an A101 plus an SD card . . . still isn't a Xoom. But the cheapest A101 is a heck of a lot cheaper than the cheapest Xoom, and I believe that's Charbax's point.

I'm not sure where you're getting $30/mo for unlimited data. I have seen no unlimited plan for Verizon. There are tiered plans starting at $20 for 1GB, up to $80 for 10GB, with rather absurd rates for overage. Verizon is sucky that way.

There are certainly ways to buy mobile data solutions that will work on the Archos tablets--the MiFi comes to mind. But I think a lot of people are quite interested in exploring the possibility of tethering to the existing data plan on their cell phone. The feasibility, permissibility, and cost of doing so varies from case to case. You can do this with a Xoom too . . . but ya gotta spring for the $800 Xoom. Which is why that is the correct number to use for the comparison.

[Charbax]

2-year contract and over $1500 for cellular...

$29.99 a month for unlimited acess is hardly $1500. $29.99*24=$719.76 in two years for cellular service NOT $1500.

That's $1318 for the xoom over those 2 year contract, I'm not far off. I also believe Verizon are crooks in that they might super charge you if you so happen by mistake to download a little bit more than what you have in the subscription, then they just charge you insane price on top per megabyte or something, making it easy for you to spend actually over the $1500 during those two years.

[Charbax]

Here are my numbers:
Archos $369.99: https://store.archos.com/archos-interne ... -5005.html(select 16gig)
16gig micro SD$30.00: http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-MicroSD- ... 362&sr=8-4
TOTAL COST FOR a 32gig A101 $399.99

Stop the bs.

A101IT 16GB is $342.37 on http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00422 ... B00422TXZA

AND, just cause one company forces you to buy an Elephant, that is a completely ridiculous way to then turn around and force people to also buy the elephant on that other product for comparison.

Why can't you buy a 8GB xoom if you want too? Yes that's right, that's cause Motorola want to suck all your money out of your wallet.

A101IT is sold $299 MSRP. It doesn't matter how many GB blah blah. 90% of iPads are sold with the minimum storage inside, that is, cause people don't care shit how much storage capacity it has, ESPECIALLY NOT if they are completely screwed on the cost per GB with the brand for upgrading just a bit the capacity. SCREW THAT, even Archos charging $50 more MSRP for just 8GB more memory built-in, that's like 5x more than the cost of a 8GB MicroSD, sure it's a scam. But not as scammy as what companies like Apple charge for a few more GB included.

[Charbax]

it's very unlikely that the user is going to even use that 3G connection lots as 10" tablets mostly stay at home and at home you have wifi.

This statement is just ludicrous, as these are PORTABLE devices meant to be taken on the road, if people were intending to only use them at home they would, 1.) Not care about battery life as when it starts to get low they could just plug it in, and 2.) Not be asking how to tether their cell phones to get internet, and with all the threads people here are asking how to tether using a cell phone

Find me a pocket large enough to fit a 10.1" 730gr tablet. Those pockets do not exist. And people don't carry around a bag just to bring with them a tablet. It just doesn't happen. You'll find people with jacket-pocket-sized 7" tablets or normal-pocket-sized 5" tablets or smaller (then entering smartphone category) to be taking their device outside about 10x more often than people who have a 10" tablet.

Same for Laptops and Netbooks, those are too large to bring with you everywhere, which is why 99% of the use of laptops and netbooks are used at home. Which basically makes laptops and netbooks just desktop replacements at home, where you thus just know that in the few cases per year where you might need a battery powered computing device on a travel or something, then it can do that. But mostly you just use it and leave it at home, and use it on WiFi.

I think it would be safe to say that if the Archos came with a 3g option about 70% would probably sign up to have internet access with a cell phone provider in order to have internet all the time.

Again, you are completely wrong. About 97% of iPads are sold WITHOUT 3G. People don't want 3G on a 10" tablet. End of story.

For 7" and smaller, 3G makes more and more sense. Simply not for anything larger than 7", those are mostly used for sofa surfing in the living room.

[zillah]

Find me a pocket large enough to fit a 10.1" 730gr tablet. Those pockets do not exist. And people don't carry around a bag just to bring with them a tablet. It just doesn't happen.

Actually, I have to bump in and say I do carry around a bag for my 101 and think that the 7" sizing is not realistically pocket-able. (even though it is theoretically) Of course n=1, but that's all I need to disprove your statement. Then again, there are more benefits to having a bag than to just tote around my 101.

Rockstar, I think your argument will be valid when Motorola releases their wifi-only Xoom, but like Arkiv said this certainly isn't an apples to apples comparison. But I definitely agree with you that if I was going to buy a tablet, (assuming I didn't have one already) I would wait for the wifi only Xoom (or even an iPad 2 for that matter) because my 101 doesn't even compare in quality. The value gained going from "having nothing" to "having a tablet" and "having a tablet" to "a new tablet" is a different proposition.

[Charbax]

the 7" sizing is not realistically pocket-able

Archos 70 Internet Tablet fits in about 95% of normal jacket inside pockets. Meaning, as long as you wear a jacket, you can take your A70IT with you everywhere you go outside without needing a bag. That is the main purpose of choosing the 7" form factor.

[zillah]

the 7" sizing is not realistically pocket-able

Archos 70 Internet Tablet fits in about 95% of normal jacket inside pockets. Meaning, as long as you wear a jacket, you can take your A70IT with you everywhere you go outside without needing a bag. That is the main purpose of choosing the 7" form factor.

Find me a pocket large enough to fit a 10.1" 730gr tablet. Those
pockets do not exist. And people don't carry around a bag just to bring with them a tablet. It just doesn't happen.

Jackets that I usually wear (the fashionable ones, at least) can not do this at all or if they can, do it comfortably. Neither would my GFs. And if I remember my friends jackets correctly, neither can they or if they can, do it comfortably. Charbax, I have seen your video where you stuff your 70 into your huge snow jacket and that may work in that case so I will reiterate:

the 7" sizing is not realistically pocket-able. (even though it is theoretically)

I agree with you that people are choosing the 7" form-factor because of its smaller size, but not because it can fit into a jacket pocket.

[Charbax]

Jackets that I usually wear (the fashionable ones, at least) can not do this at all or if they can, do it comfortably. Neither would my GFs. And if I remember my friends jackets correctly, neither can they or if they can, do it comfortably.

Have you actually tried? I don't think so. 95% of ALL JACKETS can fit the A70IT easily in the inside pocket. Everyone I meet at every conference, I always ask them to try to put my A70IT in their jacket pocket, it ALWAYS FITS FINE.

Most of the remaining 5% of jackets that can't carry the A70IT are not because the pocket is not large enough, but in most cases because that jacket design somehow does not have any inside jacket pockets at all.

[gte105u]

The idea that the Xoom, like the Ipad, is remotely close to the same cost is laughable. They are not. They are obviously higher end products. The choice of if to spend that much or not is up to the consumer. But to try and convince people that the cost comes remotely close to the same is misleading. I personally think anyone spending over $400 for a tablet, especially now with the innovations being made and changes in market, it silly with their money. I will spend more later, but still never close to the prices these companies are trying to charge. You might as well get a computer if you are spending $800, it makes no sense.

[Rockstar]

Stop the bs.
A101IT 16GB is $342.37 on http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00422 ... B00422TXZA

It's not BS I was quoting Archos's own website.

Again, you are completely wrong. About 97% of iPads are sold WITHOUT 3G. People don't want 3G on a 10" tablet. End of story.

Where are you getting your information? Most of the people I know that have an Ipad have the 3g service. Also when I show my Archos their first question is, who do I have for internet?

Simply not for anything larger than 7", those are mostly used for sofa surfing in the living room.

Again I disagree, most of the people I have talked with about this said it would be a portable device, that could be easily carried with them. Sorry totally disagree with you on this point.

I'm not sure where you're getting $30/mo for unlimited data. I have seen no unlimited plan for Verizon. There are tiered plans starting at $20 for 1GB, up to $80 for 10GB, with rather absurd rates for overage. Verizon is sucky that way.

This pricing came from two different local Verzion stores. This past weekend I stopped in just to take a look, then I asked about data packeges, and what I was told was $29.99 for Unlimited access. Then last night I stopped by their website and the site showed the tiered plans, so I then went by a different store this morning to confirm the $29.99 Unlimited plan and was told yes it in fact was $29.99 Unlimited. So not sure why the difference.

Saying you need to add an SD card doesn't begin to make the two equivalent. An A101 isn't a Xoom; an A101 plus an SD card . . . still isn't a Xoom.

I know, and understand this, all I was trying to do was to try and get the two as close to equal as possible with memory capacity. You make an argument about the unit costing just $299 vs. $799, but the problem is the A101 is only an 8gig at the $299 price point, so by using the 16gig and adding a 16gig sd card to give each unit 32gig capacity your now copmairing a 32gig device to a 32gig device. That's all I was trying to do.

Rockstar, I think your argument will be valid when Motorola releases their wifi-only Xoom, but like Arkiv said this certainly isn't an apples to apples comparison.

I can agree with this. I to would like to see a wifi only option, I think it would be a lot closer to the price point of the $500.00 range and easier to compare, and if that price point does turn out to be the case, then my original point would be correct in that the Archros would no longer be such a bargain.

But to try and convince people that the cost comes remotely close to the same is misleading

I was not trying to convince anyone....anything. My original, comparison was to get a 32gig device you could either buy a 16gig A101 with a 16gig SD card at $399.99,plus shipping(again pricing came from Archos website, you might get it cheaper at Amazon, but that point is mute...MSRP is $369.99), or subsidize a high end Xoom for $599.99, which IMO no longer made the lower end Archos such a good deal anymore. That was my point. Then I was attacked saying I was giving misleading and bs information, which was totally untrue.

I still stick by all my points. I also understand that this is a site of fans for Archos, and I still am a fan of Archos, but to come out and attack people saying they are misleading and spreading bs, just because you disagree with them is not right.

[Charbax]

I to would like to see a wifi only option, I think it would be a lot closer to the price point of the $500.00 range and easier to compare, and if that price point does turn out to be the case, then my original point would be correct in that the Archros would no longer be such a bargain.

Why do you keep insisting?

By that time Archos will have released the rk29/capacitive $199 Arnova 10 at $199 MSRP, $170 at cheapest resellers. That's still less than 3x cheaper than a Xoom.

3x cheaper man.

A soccer mom can buy 3 Arnova 10 for the price of 1 wifi Xoom.

Nobody, just about nobody in their right mind, when given the choice in the store is going to choose $500 tablets if Archos and Arnovas are right there in the store and available. Nobody, not even rich people are so careless with their money if just given the choice in store.

[Arkiv]

Thanks Rockstar. I do actually agree with the basic premise that, if you want a 32 gig tablet, the price comparison should reflect the cost of that. That's the trouble with the premise of a "price" or "value" comparison in the first place; you have to start with what you need/want, then determine the total cost of the solutions that fill the need.

And that's why I don't quite agree with Charbax' premise either. The cheaper Archos tablets are only a good value if they deliver the features and performance you want/need. The Xoom really does have nice features that you can't get on the Gen 8s: dual processors, rear-facing 5mp cam with flash, gps+compass, much more RAM, higher screen resolution, etc. Oh, and Honeycomb, if you happen to need that right now.

Frankly, those advantages--in addition to the storage capacity point discussed--would be attractive to me and worth paying a certain premium for. However, the Xoom's initial price I find far too much for my own personal needs. I also find it to be a bit heavy and bulky for my taste. But if you took a Xoom, shaved off some of the weight and bulk, and priced that sucker at $450 for wifi-only/no contract, I would find it pretty compelling. Maybe even $500.

That's interesting about the Verizon pricing plans . . . that sounds a bit less insane if it is truly "unlimited" (however, I believe most such plans actually have some form of "soft cap").

[macgyver40]

Same for Laptops and Netbooks, those are too large to bring with you everywhere, which is why 99% of the use of laptops and netbooks are used at home. Which basically makes laptops and netbooks just desktop replacements at home, where you thus just know that in the few cases per year where you might need a battery powered computing device on a travel or something, then it can do that. But mostly you just use it and leave it at home, and use it on WiFi.

charbax you must not visit the USA very much. go to any coffee shop and you will see 90% of the customers have laptops there. I as a computer tech take my laptop with me everywhere, even when I didn't work cause of kidney issues I had my laptop with me at the hospital and saw many people visiting the hospital with laptops.

As for the rest of this thread you both have points but Charbax your kinda a fanboy when it comes to Archos. All tablets have their place some do things better then others and all don't do what each of us want in a tablet. the Archos 70 does 90% of what I want but still fall short on some major points. It will be at least another year or 2 before a single tablet can say it can do it all and that's only if we are lucky. As for price all are over priced and until more come to market and consumers settle in with these device prices will be insane until that time just like any new computing device.

[macgyver40]

I to would like to see a wifi only option, I think it would be a lot closer to the price point of the $500.00 range and easier to compare, and if that price point does turn out to be the case, then my original point would be correct in that the Archros would no longer be such a bargain.

Why do you keep insisting?

By that time Archos will have released the rk29/capacitive $199 Arnova 10 at $199 MSRP, $170 at cheapest resellers. That's still less than 3x cheaper than a Xoom.

3x cheaper man.

A soccer mom can buy 3 Arnova 10 for the price of 1 wifi Xoom.

Nobody, just about nobody in their right mind, when given the choice in the store is going to choose $500 tablets if Archos and Arnovas are right there in the store and available. Nobody, not even rich people are so careless with their money if just given the choice in store.

when I was at a Best Buy in Orlando FL where 75% of the customers are tourists and the 7HT and the Galaxy Tab were on display side by side people asked more about what they could and couldn't do before the price tag. I watched 7 Galaxies walk out the store and I was the only one to buy an Archos device. Sales might be different in other parts of the world but at least here in the US price tags are not the only thing we look at. and I remember the 2 mains questions were does it have the market and will it play farmville. both things are a big no off the bat for Archos. You also can't buy the Archos flag ship 70 and 101 in local stores unlike most tablets. When best Buy gets the new Arnova models I will go to the store and see where they place then and I would almost bet it won't be next to the high end tablets that sell if its easy to find at all. As I remember the 7HT wasn't even a working model on display the first day I went looking for it.

[Charbax]

7HT has been on sale for a year in every Office Depot, Sears and more, all kinds of stores that don't even bother selling Galaxy Tab or even iPad. Those stores are not so much into screwing the customer on overpriced devices.

Given a choice betwen A70IT at $275 and Galaxy Tab at $599, obviously about 90% of consumers in that store would instantly choose Archos, this is as obvious as peanut. The remaining 10% would be those people thinking Google Marketplace and Flash can't easily be installed by Google Search apk download once you own the device.

Given the choice between Arnova 10 rk29/capacitive for $199, ipad2 for $499, Xoom for $539, obviously that also about 90% of consumers will choose Arnova 10, this is easier to understand than toasting bread.

The only reason Archos can't become the number 1 most selling tablet maker next month, is ONLY because they can't afford to produce more devices than their current rate. If Archos had a billion dollars, they would make 10 million Tablets and would be able to sell them ALL in about 2 months, all retail stores want Archos if they can just be allowed to get them. Archos actually has to fight off retailers with excuse saying they rather want to focus on fewer retailers for as long as they can't even provide enough devices to satisfy the huge demand even in those few stores that can get some devices in stock.

[macgyver40]

Well every retail store I have been in didn't have archos. And the one I found in,Orlando. Only had one and had plans to stop having the brand.

[jojo1202]

I just purchase from Tiger Direct an Archos 7 for $99.99 is for me and my daughter mainly for her. I could also take it to my college which has wi-fi throught the campus, how can I go wrong? I been looking around for a ipod touch, but for the price of the Archos and the screen size I think I made out a like a bandit. Prove me wrong if you dare.

[Stevo]

To bring everyone up to speed here is my original post in response to this from Charbax:

Charbax wrote in this thread http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.p ... 95#p335295:

"10.2 might be for Honeycomb, well then let's get Honeycomb officially on our tablets, that'll make for a good 3.0 firmware. As far as I know, though, Honeycomb source code is not yet released in the open. But it should be out the same day as Xoom."

The key words here are "But it should be out the same day as Xoom."

I posted this in response:

"The Xoom is already out, every store here in my local area have them and are in stock, I looked at one this past weekend...and I must say I am really impressed with the quality and performance of the product, and now with the A101 being $369.99+$30.00(16ig MicrsoSD)=$399.99, vs. the $599.99 of the 32gig Xoom is not looking like the A101 is such a deal any more. If I was looking at tablets now and compared the two the Xoom would be by far the better deal. I don't want to hear about how much you'll be paying over two years of contract vs. no contract as if your buying something like this you'll would buy the internet anyway, that can't be configured in to the tablet. Also if something happens to it, screen cracks, stops working, for the insurance will cover it, for $80.00, with $400.00 your just plain out of luck. Anyway that's off topic, the Xoom is out and is in stores and the Honeycomb source code has not been released yet."

He then got very defensive accusing me of putting misleading information of which I did not, and then responded with this:

"Google said they'll release the source code and updated CDD the day Xoom is out. It should be any day now, I guess they need to put finishing touches to it before release. And the corrent pricing is like this, A101IT is $299 MSRP and Xoom is $799 MSRP, nearly 3x more expensive, nearly 2x heavier, nearly 2x fatter, no kick-stand. Don't write misleading stuff in here please."

So now here is my proof:

Your numbers are completely misleading.

As I stated my numbers are NOT misleading! I was trying to compare as close to each other as I could. The Xoom has 32gigs of memory. So the 16gig A101 IS IN FACT $369.99, if you aslo buy a 16gig SD card to give each device the same memory you would have brought up the Archos price tag to $399.99. You keep throwing out the 8gig $299. price and you can't compare a 8gig device against a 32gig it's not fair.

Your numbers are completely misleading. Don't waste my time. A101IT is $299 480gr, Xoom is $799 730gr. End of story.

Here are my numbers:
Archos $369.99: https://store.archos.com/archos-interne ... -5005.html(select 16gig)
16gig micro SD$30.00: http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-MicroSD- ... 362&sr=8-4
TOTAL COST FOR a 32gig A101 $399.99

So what, Archos has sold many more Gen8 than Motorola has sold xoom.

No need to be defensive, I was just saying that the ONE store I was at...had it's self sold over a hundred units alone. There are tens of thousands of stores nationwide, not to mention web sales. I was just speaking fro ONE store.

2-year contract and over $1500 for cellular...

$29.99 a month for unlimited acess is hardly $1500. $29.99*24=$719.76 in two years for cellular service NOT $1500.

it's very unlikely that the user is going to even use that 3G connection lots as 10" tablets mostly stay at home and at home you have wifi.

This statement is just ludicrous, as these are PORTABLE devices meant to be taken on the road, if people were intending to only use them at home they would, 1.) Not care about battery life as when it starts to get low they could just plug it in, and 2.) Not be asking how to tether their cell phones to get internet, and with all the threads people here are asking how to tether using a cell phone I think it would be safe to say that if the Archos came with a 3g option about 70% would probably sign up to have internet access with a cell phone provider in order to have internet all the time.

Did you call Charbax defensive? Yeah, you started a whole thread defending what you did? Pot, you are. Kettle, he is.