iPod Touch 16GB vs Archos 605 160 GB - Subjective

Post by **Charbax** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:02 pm

ETM wrote:Isn't that, like, completely useless? Isn't it all about a SINGLE person's experience?

I am suggesting he should invite a friend and do comparative tests where one is using the Archos 605 WiFi and the other is using the iPod Touch to do the same things on the Internet, and then they should exchange devices, and do all that with a chronometer.

This way you can be sure to test which browser is better, which lets any user browse faster and better. Find answers and posts things faster on the Internet cause that what a browser is about.

And pixels DO matter. Not only about antialiasing text, but about being able to view the whole width of over 90% of the websites out there that require a minimum of 800 pixels wide, no matter how small or how big your screen is, you will need all those pixels or else text will simply be unreadable.

For example try browsing the Internet using composite output on an old analog TV, that's even higher resolution then the iPod Touch, that is an unusable internet browsing experience even though the pixels are large. The only way on an old analog composite or scart TV and on the iPod Touch resolution is to constantly zoom in on text, or as will the 604 WiFi, to have to scroll horizonthally, vertically and zoom around pages all the time.

mitchelln · Post by **mitchelln** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:51 am

Charbax wrote:And pixels DO matter. Not only about antialiasing text, but about being able to view the whole width of over 90% of the websites out there that require a minimum of 800 pixels wide, no matter how small or how big your screen is, you will need all those pixels or else text will simply be unreadable.

Man, you must have very good eyesight to read a website without zooming on the 605.
Anyway, most sites are built to 1024x768 these days. Even 800x600 requires scrolling around on an 800x480 display. Let's face it, web browsing on any PMP is a pretty miserable experience. Great for checking out basic news information, perhaps even email at a real pinch, but really it's aimed at downloading music and video from sites with optimised pages for small displays. Best application is showing your mates videos of hilarious family accidents of course.
Finding out what time the next train is, booking cinema tickets, checking airline arrival times, any site with frames or javascript - forget it. I wish PMP companies would get real and stop touting it as full web browsing capability. It's as bad as the whole "Web 2.0" marketing hype.

Post by **Charbax** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:05 am

Archos is the only PMP with a 800x480 screen. Nokia's got some usable browsing on their N770 and N800 but those are not usable PMPs.

iPod Touch sucks for browsing in comparison. iPod Touch might be a good browser for 480x320, but 480x320 sucks for browsing the existing Internet.

mitchelln · Post by **mitchelln** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:04 am

Charbax wrote:Archos is the only PMP with a 800x480 screen. Nokia's got some usable browsing on their N770 and N800 but those are not usable PMPs.

iPod Touch sucks for browsing in comparison. iPod Touch might be a good browser for 480x320, but 480x320 sucks for browsing the existing Internet.

My point is (and you don't seem to be disputing it) is that all PMP's "suck" for browsing. Browsing is an extremely interactive activity and no PMP yet has the input method or suitable display device to make it a useful and non frustrating experience. We've hit the physical limitations of size here.

mitchelln · Post by **mitchelln** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:09 am

Charbax wrote: For example try browsing the Internet using composite output on an old analog TV, that's even higher resolution then the iPod Touch, that is an unusable internet browsing experience even though the pixels are large. The only way on an old analog composite or scart TV and on the iPod Touch resolution is to constantly zoom in on text, or as will the 604 WiFi, to have to scroll horizonthally, vertically and zoom around pages all the time.

This is a gross over simplification. TV tubes have an extremely low DPI due to the coarse phosphor dot pitch, so to get the text readable they have to seriously re-render the site. The resulting resolution is nowhere near the full theoretical of PAL or NTSC. You simply can't compare a 32 inch TV screen with a 4.3" LCD.

Post by **Charbax** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:05 pm

mitchelln wrote:all PMP's "suck" for browsing.

All PMPs other then the Archos 605 WiFi.

This is the reason Archos used the highest pixel density of any screen in the world, to make a 4.3" screen have the same resolution as a normal PC monitor.

mitchelln wrote:Browsing is an extremely interactive activity and no PMP yet has the input method or suitable display device to make it a useful and non frustrating experience. We've hit the physical limitations of size here.

The only feature I am waiting for Archos to add is USB keyboard support, and maybe USB bluetooth dongle support or a Bluetooth Dock. This would enable the use of a full sized foldable Keyboard such as the Fellowes Stowaway USB and Bluetooth foldable keyboards and thus the browsing experience will be the most usable of any pocketable device. you can easilly fit the Archos 605 WiFi in one pocket and the foldable full sized keyboard in the other pocket or have the foldable keyboard with the Battery Dock and some cables in your jack pocket.

This is the whole point of a PMP, is that it fits in any pocket with the optional accesories in the other pocket. Which makes it easier to bring a WiFi internet browsing experience with you wherever you go, it makes it safer cause you don't need to protect a laptop in a backpack or a bag, makes it better in terms of battery life, makes it more discreet to use your PMP in public places, it makes it also quicker to browse since it's faster to take the 605 WiFi out of your pocket then to pull a laptop out of the bag and Archos instant resume from stand-by mode is faster then Windows XP or Vista resuming or bootup.

This is the whole point that you seem to be missing, with a PMP you bring the Internet and you bring your multimedia files with you wherever you go.

mitchelln · Post by **mitchelln** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:21 am

Charbax wrote:
All PMPs other then the Archos 605 WiFi.

This is the reason Archos used the highest pixel density of any screen in the world, to make a 4.3" screen have the same resolution as a normal PC monitor.

Oh what a surprise. You are not listening to me at all are you. What use is normal PC monitor resolution on a LCD panel where the dot pitch is measured in microns? Please explain to me why a readable web page on the 605 displays roughly the same amount of page as my Fujitsu with a resolution of 640x480? Plus 800x480 is not full PC resolution at all is it. These days that's 1280x1024 and most websites are built to at least 1024x768. 800x480 does not cut it without copious scrolling

Charbax wrote: The only feature I am waiting for Archos to add is USB keyboard support, and maybe USB bluetooth dongle support or a Bluetooth Dock. This would enable the use of a full sized foldable Keyboard such as the Fellowes Stowaway USB and Bluetooth foldable keyboards and thus the browsing experience will be the most usable of any pocketable device. you can easilly fit the Archos 605 WiFi in one pocket and the foldable full sized keyboard in the other pocket or have the foldable keyboard with the Battery Dock and some cables in your jack pocket.

I've owned most of these type of fold up keyboards and they are bulky. Certainly not pocket sized (the usable ones at any rate). Most of them are bluetooth based anyway, which the 605 does not have.
Why on earth would you want to use a USB keyboard on a portable media device anyway? Are you seriously saying that you would use your 605 to browse the web instead of a PC? There is no mouse support either. So you'll be typing away on a massive keyboard whilst squinting at a tiny 4.3" display and then fumbling about constantly picking up and putting down the stylus trying to click on tiny links. Yeah, that's a great browsing experience.
You are funny how you totally contradict yourself. You say on the UMPC thread that browsing on a small screen device is a nightmare and here you're saying it's no problem. Make your mind up!

alankayser · Post by **alankayser** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:22 am

Mitchelln

Pretty funny, carry the Archos 605 in one pocket and a cumbersome USB keyboard and possibly a Bluetooth dongle in another.

Hey! I have a great idea. Why not make just one device that fills both requirements. Brilliant. I'll call it a VMPC as in Very Mobile PC. No, ah, I've got it. A UMPC! An Ultra Mobile PC. I'll make it with a 4.8" screen, 800x480, FIE, keyboard, WiFi, bluetooth, and a full OS with lots of apps, a 60gb hd, maybe even 6ssd, hsdpa connectivity. And it will be almost exactly the same size as a SonyPSP. And though it won't fit into a jeans pocket, it will slip easily into a cargo pants pocket. Oh, and I'll make it with a six hour battery and throw a second battery in just to be nice.

Sounds pretty cool to me! I'll be rich, I say! Rich, rich, rich...

What's that you say? It already exists? Aw shucks.

ETM · Post by **ETM** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:46 am

alankayser wrote:What's that you say? It already exists? Aw shucks.

Yes, it exists, but it SUCKS! Sucks, I say! It is a DOOMED concept!

Post by **Charbax** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:28 pm

You three have absolutely no arguments, you know that your UMPCs and PDAs suck, both in terms of performance and price, and still you come back to this forum everyday trying to convince yourself that you have valid arguments. This thread is going nowhere.

Posted from my Archos, much better pocket browser and pocket media player value and performance per dollar, per gram and per cubic centimeter then your 640pixel 500 dollar useless for media playing PDAshits or your 1000 dollars unpocketable Windows UMPcraps.

Cold_Death · Post by **Cold_Death** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:47 pm

Both sides seem to be going a bit overboard in this discussion... but that's just my opinion

On one hand, the Archos is definitely more compact than a UMPC and in my opinion the screen is good enough to view most websites without zooming, from my experience.

Pocketable/Foldable keyboards don't really take up much space, and could be used to enhance the experience with the Archos further, while still keeping the price quite a bit lower than with a UMPC. Would be nice to have the possibility of adding one via the Dock or the Dock Connector.

For someone that wants to run certain apps on a mobile computer but wants it compact enough a UMPC isn't a bad choice, although the prices are still quite high and the generated heat could still be less (the next gen from Intel could help there).

PDAs are quite another matter in my opinion, browsing is worse than on the Archos, given the resolution of the screen, writing text can be done by an additional keyboard, but combined its just not the same. Appwise more flexible, yes, but what the Archos can do it does mostly better than a PDA. (Videos, Music, Browser). PDFs i don't know how a PDA can handle them, on the Archos its slow, but thanks to the resolution of the screen text is nicely readable without adjustments.

I could go on in comparing but it's not that imortant to me... i got my Archos, maybe will get me another device for other needs, but i'm happy with it. UMPCs are out of the question for me currently. Since i already have a normal laptop, the price for a UMPC is much too high for me personally.

alankayser · Post by **alankayser** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:43 pm

You three have absolutely no arguments, you know that your UMPCs and PDAs suck, both in terms of performance and price, and still you come back to this forum everyday trying to convince yourself that you have valid arguments. This thread is going nowhere.

Posted from my Archos, much better pocket browser and pocket media player value and performance per dollar, per gram and per cubic centimeter then your 640pixel 500 dollar useless for media playing PDAshits or your 1000 dollars unpocketable Windows UMPcraps.

Nice language. And I must say it's really a delight to read your illuminating and "we're all friends here" comments.

You know, I'll bet Archos HQ would love to read these tasty comments you post here. Your eloquence does so much to promote their product. Kind of reminds me of those ppl in Washington who tell us, "This is good for you." Why? BECAUSE I SAY IT IS!!!

You need to get a life, my friend and stop attacking ppl for posting their thoughts. You seem to take the comments I and some others post as a personal attack on you. You might want to take a chill pill. Perhaps you take this much too seriously. To me these are devices, something to enjoy and use. But they sure aren't family or friends. Attack my family and I take it personally. Attack my Archos and I could care less (just don't steal it!). If this website is only for those who agree with you, then call it as such. Meanwhile ppl who want to make intelligent PG rated comments and cherish free speech may want to go elsewhere.

Post by **roylovelock** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:03 pm

THATS IT FINAL....
Stop this Flamewars, bashing etc (read the rules!), i am sick to death of all of it, its not good for the forum. Im locking this thread before i have to BAN people.
roy