MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

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jaysmay
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MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by jaysmay »

Hi There,

Like many folks I am interested in playing my video library as-is, without conversion.
I have mainly 720p High profile videos.

Can someone help me understand where the limitation lies?
How can I figure out (without owning a Archos yet) which videos will work?

- Does it depend on the resolution (1080p or 720p) ?
- Will high profile 5.1 never work, or possibly with 720p?
- What influence does the # ref frames play, what will work?
- What influence will 1GHz vs 1.2Ghz vs 1.5Ghz processor have?

Some examples of codecs I have.. perhaps someone could let me know if these should play or not?
Details below...
File1. 720p_AVC_HPL5.1 5refframe_DTS
File2. 720p_AVC_HPL4.1 12refframe_DTS
File3. 1080p_AVC_HPL4.1 5refframe_DTS
File4. 720p_AVC_HPL4.1 11refframe_AC3
File5. 720p_AVC_HPL4.1 9refframe_DTS

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
File1.
eneral
Unique ID : 198867789933048769911781826225898958272 (0x959C8B0C92FE1CABB3B62A3ECA46ADC0)
Complete name : D:\FTPHome\Requests\720p_AVC_HPL5.1 5refframe_DTS\halcyon-madmen.s01e01.720p-x264 (1)-002.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 38.8 MiB
Duration : 51s 427ms
Overall bit rate : 6 322 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2011-07-26 05:15:01
Writing application : mkvmerge v4.9.1 ('Ich will') built on Jul 11 2011 23:53:15
Writing library : libebml v1.2.1 + libmatroska v1.1.1

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 5 frames
Muxing mode : Header stripping
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 51s 426ms
Bit rate : 4 686 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.212
Stream size : 28.7 MiB (74%)
Language : English

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Muxing mode : Header stripping
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 51s 427ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 19ms
Stream size : 9.26 MiB (24%)
Language : English
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
FILE2.
General
Unique ID : 240472169315396534229241750805894091415 (0xB4E94152AA69174388179C219FAF5297)
Complete name : D:\FTPHome\Requests\720p_AVC_HPL4.1 12refframe_DTS\Beastly.2011.BluRay.720p.DTS.x264-CHD.sample.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 45.2 MiB
Duration : 56s 356ms
Overall bit rate : 6 725 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2011-06-05 16:05:31
Writing application : mkvmerge v4.7.0 ('Just Like You Imagined') þ╝ûÞ»æõ║Ä Apr 21 2011 01:13:14
Writing library : libebml v1.2.0 + libmatroska v1.1.0

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 12 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 56s 348ms
Bit rate : 5 081 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 544 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.304
Stream size : 34.1 MiB (76%)
Language : English

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 56s 356ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 3ms
Stream size : 10.1 MiB (22%)
Title : English DTS-HDMA core 5.1 1509Kbps
Language : English
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
FILE 3
General
Unique ID : 249572113680594517457199017114492280791 (0xBBC1D738418407FDBF136AC95A2D1FD7)
Complete name : D:\FTPHome\Requests\1080p_AVC_HPL4.1 5refframe_DTS\Sample.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 114 MiB
Duration : 41s 583ms
Overall bit rate : 23.0 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2010-04-30 17:24:13
Writing application : mkvmerge v2.9.8 ('C'est le bon') built on Aug 13 2009 12:49:06
Writing library : libebml v0.7.7 + libmatroska v0.8.1

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 5 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 41s 583ms
Bit rate : 21.1 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 802 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.571
Stream size : 104 MiB (91%)
Title : 18000 kbps
Language : English

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 41s 583ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 51ms
Stream size : 7.48 MiB (7%)
Title : Main Audio
Language : English


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
FILE4.
General
Unique ID : 241732029047197267567712077545073118391 (0xB5DBE53414D2EA25ABA9F444D2F98CB7)
Complete name : D:\FTPHome\Requests\720p_AVC_HPL4.1 11refframe_AC3\!sample.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 45.2 MiB
Duration : 1mn 2s
Overall bit rate : 6 062 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2010-11-19 16:03:22
Writing application : mkvmerge v4.3.0 ('Escape from the Island') built on Sep 5 2010 10:30:51
Writing library : libebml v1.0.0 + libmatroska v1.0.0

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 11 frames
Muxing mode : Header stripping
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1mn 2s
Bit rate : 5 302 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 530 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.326
Stream size : 39.5 MiB (87%)
Language : English

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : Header stripping
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1mn 2s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 14ms
Stream size : 4.77 MiB (11%)
Language : English

Text #1
ID : 3
Format : ASS
Codec ID : S_TEXT/ASS
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Sub Station Alpha
Compression mode : Lossless
Language : English

Text #2
ID : 4
Format : ASS
Codec ID : S_TEXT/ASS
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Sub Station Alpha
Compression mode : Lossless
Title : SDH
Language : English

Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:00:00:00.000
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
FILE5.
General
Unique ID : 205593641137415147711850478033515218780 (0x9AABE51DAF7E694B8AC4862D188E875C)
Complete name : D:\FTPHome\Requests\720p_AVC_HPL4.1 9refframe_DTS\The.Chronicles.of.Narnia.The.Voyage.of.the.Dawn.Treader.2010.Bluray.720p.DTS.x264-CHD-sample.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 44.6 MiB
Duration : 37s 164ms
Overall bit rate : 10.1 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2011-02-22 15:01:03
Writing application : mkvmerge v3.2.0 ('Beginnings') þ╝ûÞ»æõ║Ä Feb 12 2010 16:46:17
Writing library : libebml v0.7.9 + libmatroska v0.8.1

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 9 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 37s 162ms
Bit rate : 8 351 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.378
Stream size : 37.0 MiB (83%)
Title : The.Chronicles.of.Narnia.The.Voyage.of.the.Dawn.Treader.2010.Bluray.720p.DTS.x264-CHD
Language : English

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 37s 164ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 1ms
Stream size : 6.69 MiB (15%)
Title : The.Chronicles.of.Narnia.The.Voyage.of.the.Dawn.Treader.2010.DTS-HD.MA Core_1509kbps
Language : English
jimexbox
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by jimexbox »

I don't believe Archos supports DTS, even with the optional AC3 audio plugin.

*edit* I've now read conflicting reports at Archos DTS support, can anyone give a definitive answer?
Myth0S
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by Myth0S »

at my 70 IT i am almost sure that DTS with plug in Works.
paulus3476
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by paulus3476 »

I,m pretty sure DTS worked without the plugin - unfortunately, once you have the plugin, there's no longer any way to test
jimexbox
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by jimexbox »

According to this blog;

http://www.arctablet.com/blog/archos-ta ... lity-test/

The Archos G9 101 failed the DTS test, there is no AC3 plugin yet for gen 9 series so there is no way of knowing if the AC3 plugin will support DTS.
jaysmay
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by jaysmay »

Thanks for the responses so far.
My conclusions so far:
1: It seems there is not 100% certainty about DTS
2: No responses yet on video capability
Myth0S
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by Myth0S »

Gimme a sample up to 50mb with dts sound and low bitrate to test in my 70 IT gen 8 :)
jimexbox
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by jimexbox »

Myth0S wrote:Gimme a sample up to 50mb with dts sound and low bitrate to test in my 70 IT gen 8 :)
You can download AC3 and DTS sample from here

http://www.kellyindustries.com/sounds.html
Myth0S
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by Myth0S »

when i have a result i will post
Myth0S
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by Myth0S »

Sorry for double post but i believe in this situation is fine to do it.

The Other Side - Dolby Digital Encoded (AC-3 5.1 Surround @ 48kHz/16-bit)
Source : http://www.kellyindustries.com/sounds.html

Played fine though it didnt show the option to forward or rewind to selected position. It just plays the audio.


mad.men.s04e02.720p.bluray.x264.reward.sample.mkv
Played fine without any problems , though i saw some delay for 1 sec at the start but it gone on sync almost immediately [it is maybe because the tablet was on load].

Generaly i have tested HDTV Scene Releases [720p] and all played fine exept some p2p with very high bitrate >8000kbps.
jimexbox
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by jimexbox »

Myth0S wrote: mad.men.s04e02.720p.bluray.x264.reward.sample.mkv
Played fine without any problems , though i saw some delay for 1 sec at the start but it gone on sync almost immediately [it is maybe because the tablet was on load].

Generaly i have tested HDTV Scene Releases [720p] and all played fine exept some p2p with very high bitrate >8000kbps.
What was the audio codec for the mkv sample, DTS or AC3?
Myth0S
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by Myth0S »

jimexbox wrote:
Myth0S wrote: mad.men.s04e02.720p.bluray.x264.reward.sample.mkv
Played fine without any problems , though i saw some delay for 1 sec at the start but it gone on sync almost immediately [it is maybe because the tablet was on load].

Generaly i have tested HDTV Scene Releases [720p] and all played fine exept some p2p with very high bitrate >8000kbps.
What was the audio codec for the mkv sample, DTS or AC3?

General
Complete name : D:\FTPHome\Requests\720p_AVC_HPL4.1 5refframe_DTS\mad.men.s04e02.720p.bluray.x264.reward.sample.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 49.1 MiB
Duration : 1mn 0s
Overall bit rate : 6 856 Kbps
Writing application : x264.exe
Writing library : mkv2rls v1.3 (date: 2010 aug 28)

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 5 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1mn 0s
Bit rate : 5 210 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.236
Stream size : 37.3 MiB (76%)
Language : English

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 1mn 0s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 27ms
Stream size : 10.8 MiB (22%)
Language : English

Text
ID : 3
Format : UTF-8
Codec ID : S_TEXT/UTF8
Codec ID/Info : UTF-8 Plain Text
Language : English
jimexbox
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by jimexbox »

Cheers for that :)
kmd1970
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by kmd1970 »

jimexbox wrote:I don't believe Archos supports DTS, even with the optional AC3 audio plugin.

*edit* I've now read conflicting reports at Archos DTS support, can anyone give a definitive answer?
I can confirm that the Archos G8 played DTS audio (I was very impressed by that fact). Therefore I will assume the G9 will have the same feature. However, I am not sure if the $15 plugin was required to enable DTS on the G8's. ;)

A funny thing about the G8's was that when I first got mine it played AC3 right out of the box, then I updated the firmware and that feature got "revoked" and I had to buy the AC3 plugin to enable it. :cry:
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by v_c »

jaysmay wrote:Hi There,

Like many folks I am interested in playing my video library as-is, without conversion.
I have mainly 720p High profile videos.

Can someone help me understand where the limitation lies?
How can I figure out (without owning a Archos yet) which videos will work?

- Does it depend on the resolution (1080p or 720p) ?
- Will high profile 5.1 never work, or possibly with 720p?
- What influence does the # ref frames play, what will work?
- What influence will 1GHz vs 1.2Ghz vs 1.5Ghz processor have?
1) Yes, higher resolution is more taxing, requires more memory, higher resolution usually has higher bitrate

2) Level 5.1 is just a flag put into the container or video stream. It can be wrongly used depending on the program used to create the video. Like putting a sign that says 'thin' on a fat person. Just because it says thin doesnt mean that he is. Level 5.1 means you can use a crazy high bitrate, crazy number of reference frames, etc. If the video actually does have a crazy bitrate (like 200Mbps or something) then for sure it will not play.

Most of the time if you look at the actual specs of a L5.1 video, the real specifications are L4.1 compliant anyway. It is just bad encoders who don't know what they are doing. Nobody should encode past L4.1 anyway, it is dumb.

3) Ref frames must be stored in their decoded form, so more reference frames requires more memory and higher resolution reference frames requires more memory. Archos usually have a memory limitation for storing ref frames, it can be determined very easily, once you know the limit you can calculate max ref frames for any resolution.
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Re: MKV Video Support -> where does the limitation lie?

Post by nz »

jaysmay wrote:Can someone help me understand where the limitation lies?
How can I figure out (without owning a Archos yet) which videos will work?

Some examples of codecs I have.. perhaps someone could let me know if these should play or not?
Details below...
File1. 720p_AVC_HPL5.1 5refframe_DTS
File2. 720p_AVC_HPL4.1 12refframe_DTS
File3. 1080p_AVC_HPL4.1 5refframe_DTS
File4. 720p_AVC_HPL4.1 11refframe_AC3
File5. 720p_AVC_HPL4.1 9refframe_DTS
these should all play (AC3 needs the plugin)
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