Ac3 plugin now for money ??

7" capacitive, $199 for 8GB, $249 for 250GB (with free shipping), HDMI output, webcam...
czesiu
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by czesiu »

elmerohueso wrote:
paulus3476 wrote:After having played a good selection of my movies - it seems AC3 within .mkv needs the cinema plugin, AC3 within .avi container plays without restriction
I would really like NZ to comment on this. Why does AC3 audio play in one video container but not another?
nz?:P
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by JasonF »

nz wrote:we do not defraud you, playing MPEG2 also costs money.

for some codecs, the royalties are included in the unit price, for others, its a separate plugin.

No need to remind us about codec royalties, we are quite aware of that. Trust me we would like not to pay any of them (and in effect make the product cheaper) if we could. But we cannot :(
I'm sure you are quite aware of codec royalties. You should familiarize yourself with the definition of fraud.

If Archos weren't trying to defraud its customers, why bother obfuscating the cost of the plugin pack? No price is listed on the Tech Specs page of any device, and a potential customer can't even get to see the pricing without a product key. Then when this potential customer becomes an actual customer, he has the ability to play everything for which the plugin pack is used... at least until he installs a software update to remove the pack.

When you ship the unit with a given capability, then remove that capability via a software update and require a fee to be paid to restore said capability, that is fraud. It's a variant of the bait and switch, which is illegal in Colorado and every other state in the United States.

I'll be contacting the Colorado AG's office in the near future.
FZelle
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by FZelle »

Oh, thats what you are after.

You are a lawyer trying to earn money.
Just because american companies behave like that, doesn't mean that every company in this world does it for that reason.
elmerohueso
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by elmerohueso »

FZelle wrote:Oh, thats what you are after.

You are a lawyer trying to earn money.
Just because american companies behave like that, doesn't mean that every company in this world does it for that reason.
That was awesome. Thank you.
I live in the US and I really hate how the norm here has become to sue anytime someone doesn't agree. Most even sue knowing that their case won't hold up in court but they think they can make some money by settling out of court. Little kids throw tantrums, adults sue. It's pretty pathetic (unless there really are good grounds/cause for a suit, which there's not most of the time).

I'm kind of disappointed though that NZ continued to argue with JasonF instead of commenting on my question on why AC3 audio plays in some containers but not others. I really want to know if there's an AC3 encoding setting that won't require the plugin or if it's just a fluke.
elmerohueso
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by elmerohueso »

JasonF wrote: When you ship the unit with a given capability, then remove that capability via a software update and require a fee to be paid to restore said capability, that is fraud. It's a variant of the bait and switch, which is illegal in Colorado and every other state in the United States.
It's not fraud and it's not bait and switch. Before you purchased it, Archos gave no indication that it would play AC3 or MPEG-2 without the need of an extra codec pack. The spec page on Archos' site has always indicated that a plugin pack would be necessary to natively play these formats. Sure, the spec page doesn't say whether that pack is free or not, but pricing often isn't included in spec pages. With just a bit of effort, you could look through their store and see the link to purchase a plugin pack (that link has always been at the bottom of the Archos Store page in the US).
In any case, Archos covered their bases by noting in the spec page that an extra plugin pack would be needed, and that's all they need to show they're not using bait-and-switch tactics. If you assumed the plugin pack would be free, that's your fault. Archos is not culpable for your incorrect assumptions.
Also, as far as the device surprisingly being able to play AC3 out of the box with the old firmware, that would be considered more of a bonus or a teaser as the spec sheet says otherwise.
You have two choices to play AC3 now: you can either buy the codec pack, or you can get another video player.

Of course, if you really need to take legal action so you can get your jollies off, please just do it (try it) rather that just complaining on here.
FZelle
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by FZelle »

That was awesome. Thank you.
You are welcome.
Tsusai
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by Tsusai »

JasonF wrote:
nz wrote:we do not defraud you, playing MPEG2 also costs money.

for some codecs, the royalties are included in the unit price, for others, its a separate plugin.

No need to remind us about codec royalties, we are quite aware of that. Trust me we would like not to pay any of them (and in effect make the product cheaper) if we could. But we cannot :(
I'm sure you are quite aware of codec royalties. You should familiarize yourself with the definition of fraud.

If Archos weren't trying to defraud its customers, why bother obfuscating the cost of the plugin pack? No price is listed on the Tech Specs page of any device, and a potential customer can't even get to see the pricing without a product key. Then when this potential customer becomes an actual customer, he has the ability to play everything for which the plugin pack is used... at least until he installs a software update to remove the pack.

When you ship the unit with a given capability, then remove that capability via a software update and require a fee to be paid to restore said capability, that is fraud. It's a variant of the bait and switch, which is illegal in Colorado and every other state in the United States.

I'll be contacting the Colorado AG's office in the near future.
Was wondering why this sounded so familiar for a while....PS3 and OtherOS. I believe its been a year and nothing's happened with that class action lawsuit
JasonF
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by JasonF »

FZelle wrote:Oh, thats what you are after.

You are a lawyer trying to earn money.
Just because american companies behave like that, doesn't mean that every company in this world does it for that reason.
No, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not after money.

I'm an engineer, and a customer, who is being asked to pay to restore functionality that was eliminated via a software update. All I'm after is the restored functionality with which my device shipped.
JasonF
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by JasonF »

elmerohueso wrote:
JasonF wrote: When you ship the unit with a given capability, then remove that capability via a software update and require a fee to be paid to restore said capability, that is fraud. It's a variant of the bait and switch, which is illegal in Colorado and every other state in the United States.
It's not fraud and it's not bait and switch. Before you purchased it, Archos gave no indication that it would play AC3 or MPEG-2 without the need of an extra codec pack. The spec page on Archos' site has always indicated that a plugin pack would be necessary to natively play these formats. Sure, the spec page doesn't say whether that pack is free or not, but pricing often isn't included in spec pages. With just a bit of effort, you could look through their store and see the link to purchase a plugin pack (that link has always been at the bottom of the Archos Store page in the US).
I already covered this.

You cannot actually get the price of the plugin pack until AFTER you purchase the device and have a product key.
In any case, Archos covered their bases by noting in the spec page that an extra plugin pack would be needed, and that's all they need to show they're not using bait-and-switch tactics. If you assumed the plugin pack would be free, that's your fault. Archos is not culpable for your incorrect assumptions.
Also, as far as the device surprisingly being able to play AC3 out of the box with the old firmware, that would be considered more of a bonus or a teaser as the spec sheet says otherwise.
You have two choices to play AC3 now: you can either buy the codec pack, or you can get another video player.

Of course, if you really need to take legal action so you can get your jollies off, please just do it (try it) rather that just complaining on here.
It's not that I assumed the plugin pack was free. It's that Archos gave no indication of its cost, and included it with the device upon shipment. Archos gave it away for free initially. It's that is WAS FREE.

Had I known Archos would remove functionality and require a fee to restore it, I would have waited to update and attempted to extract the codecs (or waited for someone at XDA or other sites to do the same) from what Archos gave me initially.

Like I said, I'll contribute to ffmpeg based projects before I'll be defrauded of a dime of my money by Archos.
JasonF
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by JasonF »

Tsusai wrote:Was wondering why this sounded so familiar for a while....PS3 and OtherOS. I believe its been a year and nothing's happened with that class action lawsuit
Fortunately for Archos, if this thread shows anything, it appears its customers would rather roll over than stand up for themselves.
Hajile_Ibushi
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by Hajile_Ibushi »

JasonF wrote:
Tsusai wrote:Was wondering why this sounded so familiar for a while....PS3 and OtherOS. I believe its been a year and nothing's happened with that class action lawsuit
Fortunately for Archos, if this thread shows anything, it appears its customers would rather roll over than stand up for themselves.
Probably because all my AC3's are still working?
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by nz »

czesiu wrote:
elmerohueso wrote:
paulus3476 wrote:After having played a good selection of my movies - it seems AC3 within .mkv needs the cinema plugin, AC3 within .avi container plays without restriction
I would really like NZ to comment on this. Why does AC3 audio play in one video container but not another?
nz?:P
It's a bug. update your SW
FZelle
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by FZelle »

Fortunately for Archos, if this thread shows anything, it appears its customers would rather roll over than stand up for themselves.
No it clearly shows that you are not able to commit that you did something wrong when not being able to get the information in the first place.
All others were able to get it right in the first try, so it is clearly your fault, not theirs.
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by Hajile_Ibushi »

nz wrote:It's a bug. update your SW
Uh... so which one's the bug? Is it or is it not supposed to play non-5.1 AC3?
elmerohueso
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by elmerohueso »

Hajile_Ibushi wrote:
nz wrote:It's a bug. update your SW
Uh... so which one's the bug? Is it or is it not supposed to play non-5.1 AC3?
+1

And what do we update? The video player is customized by Archos, so we can't just go get an update via the market (can we?), and there's no newer firmware.
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by JasonF »

nz wrote:
czesiu wrote:
elmerohueso wrote:[quote="paulus3476"After having played a good selection of my movies - it seems AC3 within .mkv needs the cinema plugin, AC3 within .avi container plays without restriction/quote]
I would really like NZ to comment on this. Why does AC3 audio play in one video container but not another?
nz?:P
It's a bug. update your SW
[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

Why? So his ability to play any AC3 at all can be removed?

You're pathetic. :roll:
Last edited by JasonF on Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JasonF
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by JasonF »

FZelle wrote:
Fortunately for Archos, if this thread shows anything, it appears its customers would rather roll over than stand up for themselves.
No it clearly shows that you are not able to commit that you did something wrong when not being able to get the information in the first place.
All others were able to get it right in the first try, so it is clearly your fault, not theirs.
I'm going to go ahead and assume English isn't your first language. I've read this five times now and still can't figure out what in god's name you think you're trying to say.

In any case, how much is Archos paying you to defend their every move?
FZelle
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by FZelle »

Does that mean, that you are not able to get even that simple sentences right?
czesiu
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by czesiu »

All others were able to get it right in the first try, so it is clearly your fault, not theirs.
don't say all :)
JasonF
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Re: Ac3 plugin now for money ??

Post by JasonF »

FZelle wrote:Does that mean, that you are not able to get even that simple sentences right?
What?!?! :lol:
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