Petition for SDK

Archos Android Tablet available now 8GB ($189), 16GB ($229), 32GB ($258), 160GB ($310), 500GB ($349)
xengren
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Petition for SDK

Post by xengren »

Can we start a petition for an SDK for third party applications? Even the Apple iPhone/Touch are getting one in February. I don't want to be left behind in this information age.
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Post by thethirdmoose »

Sure you can start one... doesn't mean archos will listen :roll: :( :D :lol: 8) :p :x :evil: :?: :?: :?: :arrow: ;) :lol: :o :( 8) :? :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

AAAAAAH SMILEY OVERLOAD!!!

:D
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Post by cheve »

if you don't start one, they would say there is no demand, hence no SDK. A specific thread(I mean sticky post here) with people requesting SDK would not be bad idea if the moderators allowed.
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Post by divx118 »

You got my vote :D

EDIT: I hope alot will follow it is in everybodys interest if they want to do more with the archos.
So also the users.

For those people who don't know SDK: It is a Software Development Kit and is used as a starting point to develop applications or pluginns.
No SDK means no third party apps or pluggins.

The abbility to use widgets, flash or HTML is not enough, because there is no way you can interact with the harddrive. Also are they not a good starting point for some advanced apps or pluggins, because it is to slow.

Maurice 8)
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Post by jh1 »

divx118 wrote:The abbility to use widgets, flash or HTML is not enough, because there is no way you can interact with the harddrive.


I can see how this would discourage Archos from releasing an SDK. What if malicious or poor programming led to hard drive corruption. I doubt Archos would want the headaches of customer support for people that messed up their drives.

On the other hand, Archos really needs to encourage grass-roots developers' support for the 605 if they want it to really take off. There's nothing like a killer-app to push sales. I think the hardware is in place to create a cult following for this unit if Archos somehow opened up the platform for developers.
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Post by davgonzalez1 »

i'm with you :) i think that there should be more to do with the archos. And also, the archos never gets boring if there is new apps and stuff coming out. It should be developed how us, the customers want it. You have my vote
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Post by waebi »

for sure ;-)

Imagine it: A wireless media/webserver :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol:

Have a look at the NSLU2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSLU2

or the Nokia 770 (and later), then you'll see how much the possibility to MODIFICATE it will push your sales ;-)
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Post by divx118 »

@ jh1

I can see how this would discourage Archos from releasing an SDK. What if malicious or poor programming led to hard drive corruption. I doubt Archos would want the headaches of customer support for people that messed up their drives.


Good point, but nobody is forced to install any extra apps. Also if they make sure you can't touch the operating system then there is no real danger the files on your archos hd are easy to backup.

Now there is really "nothing" possible you can't even create a cookie in a local html. If it only wood be possible to write a simple text(xml) file in a specified location and open up a filemanager for opening files.
(Sorry just frustrated my bookmark feature doesn't work in the e-book reader now i am forced to create a widget for it :roll: )

Maurice 8)
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Post by jh1 »

divx118 wrote:@ jh1

I can see how this would discourage Archos from releasing an SDK. What if malicious or poor programming led to hard drive corruption. I doubt Archos would want the headaches of customer support for people that messed up their drives.


Good point, but nobody is forced to install any extra apps. Also if they make sure you can't touch the operating system then there is no real danger the files on your archos hd are easy to backup.

Now there is really "nothing" possible you can't even create a cookie in a local html. If it only wood be possible to write a simple text(xml) file in a specified location and open up a filemanager for opening files.
(Sorry just frustrated my bookmark feature doesn't work in the e-book reader now i am forced to create a widget for it :roll: )

Maurice 8)


But the point of the SDK would be to make 'anything' possible. e.g. to be able to write any files anywhere. The risk would be high, but it would also open up a lot of opportunities for applications
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Post by mrfantasy »

jh1 wrote:
divx118 wrote:@ jh1

I can see how this would discourage Archos from releasing an SDK. What if malicious or poor programming led to hard drive corruption. I doubt Archos would want the headaches of customer support for people that messed up their drives.


Good point, but nobody is forced to install any extra apps. Also if they make sure you can't touch the operating system then there is no real danger the files on your archos hd are easy to backup.

Now there is really "nothing" possible you can't even create a cookie in a local html. If it only wood be possible to write a simple text(xml) file in a specified location and open up a filemanager for opening files.
(Sorry just frustrated my bookmark feature doesn't work in the e-book reader now i am forced to create a widget for it :roll: )

Maurice 8)


But the point of the SDK would be to make 'anything' possible. e.g. to be able to write any files anywhere. The risk would be high, but it would also open up a lot of opportunities for applications


The SDK should also allow control and manipulation of the built-in apps. I'm mostly thinking here the idea of a Last.FM client, which would require an API for getting playing track info.

Another alternative would be for Archos to release an open firmware. This would probably not be compatible with their plugins and apps, or allow online purchases, but could be configured. It would basically be something like Rockbox. The only issue is that I assume Archos keeps the cost of the player down because of licensing deals with vendors (like Opera and the online providers). Maemo itself might be easy to port over if they wanted to do it.
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Post by keithacole »

where do i sign?
605 wifi 160GB
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Post by mike130 »

I'd sign. I can't code to save my life, but I want this thing to do more stuff and be more customizable. Maybe I'll learn to make my own apps somehow then.
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Post by Unhban »

Listen guys, do you think this is really going to happen?

What about licensing issues that Archos have signed? That those applications will be totally free from intrusion etc?

Archos read this forum, it's been proved by looking at the bugs thread. So by us talking about it in the foreground then they have to take the official stance. If we talk about it in the 'background' then they could possibly turn a blind-eye to a little SDK accident by them, let their sales go whumpphhh and let it all happen.... unofficially.

.... a wink is as good as a nod.

Unh.
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Post by cheve »

Unhban wrote:Listen guys, do you think this is really going to happen?...

Unh.


if 75% of registered owner of 605/705 signed up, then I think it will have a definite impact.
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Post by xengren »

That's the same excuse Apple made and they had to bow to their customers' demands. Look guys, the Pocket PC, EPOC, Smartphone, etc. have had SDKs forever! Such a catastrophic scenario is so rare that it doesn't offset the advantage of being able to run 3rd party apps. How about a decent IM client? Checkbook? Mortgage application?

jh1 wrote:
divx118 wrote:The abbility to use widgets, flash or HTML is not enough, because there is no way you can interact with the harddrive.


I can see how this would discourage Archos from releasing an SDK. What if malicious or poor programming led to hard drive corruption. I doubt Archos would want the headaches of customer support for people that messed up their drives.

On the other hand, Archos really needs to encourage grass-roots developers' support for the 605 if they want it to really take off. There's nothing like a killer-app to push sales. I think the hardware is in place to create a cult following for this unit if Archos somehow opened up the platform for developers.
xengren
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Post by xengren »

If enough of us want this, then they have to listen. We vote with our voices first and then we vote with our dollars.

Unhban wrote:Listen guys, do you think this is really going to happen?

What about licensing issues that Archos have signed? That those applications will be totally free from intrusion etc?

Archos read this forum, it's been proved by looking at the bugs thread. So by us talking about it in the foreground then they have to take the official stance. If we talk about it in the 'background' then they could possibly turn a blind-eye to a little SDK accident by them, let their sales go whumpphhh and let it all happen.... unofficially.

.... a wink is as good as a nod.

Unh.
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Post by ranceramos »

To put things in perspective:

Apple has sold 100 million+ ipods, 2 billion+ itunes, created an entirely new device (iphone) and resurrected itself to become one of biggest tech companies in the world before they even considered an official SDK for one of their embedded platforms (and probably only because the iPhone didn't really add any new features compared to existing smartphones/pdas out there). Considering that Archos has created an almost bulletproof chain of trust in this device, it's highly unlikely you'll see any SDK (or even mention of such) in the near future; and its quite likely that even if a 3rd party hack is obtained, Archos will release a firmware which will invalidate it. There is just not enough of a customer base for them to justify a SDK, let alone enough interest from actual developers who are the only ones thank can use such a toolkit. Plus, it might open up the opportunity for developers to subvert the current plugin schema using freeware codes (ie. VLC media player), which may be the only way Archos actually generates profit. I'd love a SDK (and could probably even code for it) but I doubt you'll see it in the Gen5 or even Gen6 devices.
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Post by roylefamily »

Not to mention that to preserve the chain of trust Archos would have to digitally sign all applications, even every beta!

They wouldn't want to and I don't blame them.
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Post by cheve »

roylefamily wrote:Not to mention that to preserve the chain of trust Archos would have to digitally sign all applications, even every beta!

They wouldn't want to and I don't blame them.


Personally, I would prefer applications that are not trusted but working/functioning/98.0% bug free than some fully 'trusted' crash and burn garbage.

Beside, if stuffs are labeled as beta, than they are expected to have issues, end of story; one does not need to create a chain-of-trust scheme for code control/revision/tracking.

just my 2 cents
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Post by Charbax »

I think that there already is an SDK, but that one is closed and proprietary, and people from codec, services, Opera, Adobe, VOIP, Dish, those people are under NDA and the SDK is not supposed to be released to the public.

I think there is only one chance that an open SDK might be considered, that the 605 WiFi becomes a huge success, that is over a million sales wordwide something like that. Then that would create a large enough client base to justify investing time and money into preparing, updating the firmware and documenting an open applications platform for the 5th generation. Something that would provide even more than just Widgets.

The point is, Archos right now needs to protect a dozen different types of DRM (WindowsMedia, Dish, music rentals, movie rentals, codec and software licence payments...), Macrovision on the tv-output, secure video-on-demand payments and authentification, stable firmware releases (which won't risk to brick thousands of devices) and protect it's intellectual properties against dozens of competitors who would like to copy these technological innovations which no other company has today. So to provide an open applications platform, perhaps a secured open applications platform and firmware update cryptographic signing (so that Archos keeps responsabillity to provide a stable firmware that doesn't brick devices).

I hope that there are huge sales for the 605 WiFi so that many more people come to this forum and talk about interesting Widgets and interesting usage scenarios for this hardware generation device. Though I think the most probable thing would be for the 606 WiFi HSDPA to perhaps integrate a layer of Google Android which is a way to provide a secured open applications platform ontop of which perhaps Archos could provide their own multimedia features. That is, if the Android platform makes sence with a HSDPA and WiFi powered PMP and if it will be ported to the DaVinci SoC in time before Archos next generation of hardware. That is, if Google Android fits with an Archos device that is more PMP centric than it would be phone centric, even though I hope VOIP will be added soon.

Also I expect it could be possible that within a few months some countries could change their legislations concerning software patents, copyrights, codec licence royalties, open standards for DRM and formats, I think that these new laws could change the way Archos could focus away from DRM and still be able to provide video-on-demand, music-on-demand, all codecs, and base the device on more open source and an open applications platform. Current laws does not let an open-source hardware succeed and stay legal on the commercial western markets. That's why the open-source OLPC project is targeted at developping countries, but hopefully that this project will influence legislation and change the developped markets quickly. So hopefully that the children getting laptops in the developped countries will make our politicians quickly realise that they need to change our policies regarding patents and copyrights in the Internet age, and hopefully also that it will influence mass market products to become more open, cheaper and with less bloat.
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