Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Charbax »

Chengbin wrote:People don't care what the MSRP is, people care about the price on the shelf. The other netbooks might have had a higher price before, but now their price is lower. If Archos can't compete with other netbooks' price, then Archos is not competitive, especially with its brand name.
I am telling you the price that is going to be on the shelf. Re-read my posts.

Price on cheapest shelves is NEVER MSRP, it is always up to about 20% lower than MSRP cause the cheapest resellers want to be the cheapest to get more sales.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Archos5Fan »

We'll find out soon enough if the the A10 is popular or not. Let's see how much participation is in this forum in a month or two.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Chengbin »

Charbax wrote:
Chengbin wrote:People don't care what the MSRP is, people care about the price on the shelf. The other netbooks might have had a higher price before, but now their price is lower. If Archos can't compete with other netbooks' price, then Archos is not competitive, especially with its brand name.
I am telling you the price that is going to be on the shelf. Re-read my posts.

Price on cheapest shelves is NEVER MSRP, it is always up to about 20% lower than MSRP cause the cheapest resellers want to be the cheapest to get more sales.
I'll say it again, Bestbuy's original price is 99.9% MSRP.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Charbax »

Chengbin wrote:
Charbax wrote:
Chengbin wrote:People don't care what the MSRP is, people care about the price on the shelf. The other netbooks might have had a higher price before, but now their price is lower. If Archos can't compete with other netbooks' price, then Archos is not competitive, especially with its brand name.
I am telling you the price that is going to be on the shelf. Re-read my posts.

Price on cheapest shelves is NEVER MSRP, it is always up to about 20% lower than MSRP cause the cheapest resellers want to be the cheapest to get more sales.
I'll say it again, Bestbuy's original price is 99.9% MSRP.
Sure thing man. You're the MSRP at Best Buy expert.

Asus 1000H 6-cell MSRP: $499

Samsung NC10 6-cell MSRP: $499

Archos 10 6-cell MSRP: $449

MSI Wind 6-cell MSRP: $499

OK, have fun.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Archos5Fan »

The MSI Wind retails for about $429USD 6-cell. Forget MSRP. People in the USA think MSRP is joke so don't bother.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Charbax »

Archos5Fan wrote:The MSI Wind retails for about $429USD 6-cell. Forget MSRP. People in the USA think MSRP is joke so don't bother.
Well there you have it, the MSI Wind 6-cell is selling at about 14% lower than it's manufacturers suggested retail price.

If Archos 10 6-cell is sold at the same 14% cheaper than the MSRP, it will be at $386, thus $43 cheaper than the MSI Wind.

Profit margins are up to the resellers to decide. Price fixing by the manufacturer is illegal in normally regulated free market capitalistism.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Chengbin »

A company have the right to price lock their product. Archos, and Apple all do this.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Archos5Fan »

It was my understanding that official Archos retail dealers, contractually, cannot advertise retail prices lower than those required by Archos -- the dealer can offer packages, coupons, codes or whatever to circumvent the contract. We'll see what the retail prices are in the USA stores if the Archos 10 appears on the shelf. I'll be looking for it.

What would be VERY, VERY good for Archos would be if Archos could convince Wal-Mart to stock it on retail shelves. That would give Archos a very big presence in the USA retail market.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Charbax »

Chengbin wrote:A company have the right to price lock their product. Archos, and Apple all do this.
It is illegal.
In the United States, price fixing can be prosecuted as a criminal felony offense under section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act. In the United States, agreements to fix, raise, lower, stabilize, or otherwise set a price are illegal per se. It does not matter if the price agreed upon is reasonable or for a good or altruistic cause; or if the agreement is explicit and formal or unspoken and tacit. In the United States, price-fixing also includes agreements to hold prices the same, discount prices (even if based on financial need or income), set credit terms, agree on a price schedule or scale, adopt a common formula to figure prices, banning price advertising, or agreeing to adhere to prices that one announces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

What happens though is that big corporations like Apple or Nintendo do not renew deliveries of their products to resellers which sell below their MSRPs. Though that is also illegal. But the legal system is so slow and regulations are simply not enforced, that such corporations are in fact making their own laws with regards to pricing. Those corporations just don't care about open free market competition.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by kawiultraman »

Charbax wrote:
Chengbin wrote:A company have the right to price lock their product. Archos, and Apple all do this.
It is illegal.
You are confusing price fixing with minimum advertised pricing.

Price fixing is collusion between resellers to keep prices artificially high. Example: The MSRP on the Archos 10 is $400, but Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart and Frys decide between them that nobody will sell it for less than $450 to keep the price artificially high.

Minimum advertised pricing is an agreement between manufacturers and sellers. Different story.

The Supreme Court of the US has upheld the practice as legal, in Leegin vs. PSKS.

http://consumerist.com/consumer/news-fr ... 273268.php
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Charbax »

Resale price maintenance thus price fixing remains illegal in Europe as far as I know. If some corrupt right wing supreme court in the USA on June 28 2007 repealed a 96 year old ruling on the matter, well I guess it'll have to be up to Obama to get some new reasonable judges on that supreme court and repeal such a disgraceful ruling.

Allowing price fixing is just like pretending that you have a free market capitalism while you give full control on the whole market to the big monopolies.

In anyways, such tactics can only be forced onto the resellers by mafia-like big corporations. No reseller would care to follow any price indications given by a small company like Archos, they'd just laugh and sell something else. While for Nintendo or Apple products things are different. As a reseller you are forced to sell at the indicated price, be it legal or illegal. Cause if you start advertising and selling at a lower price, the manufacturer will ban you and you aren't going to be getting any new stock. Thus a refusal to sell, which should also be illegal but is never enforced.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Archos5Fan »

Does Archos require of its authorized retailers a policy to not advertise Archos 5 products below a certain price or below a certain percentage of the price? Can an authorized Archos dealer advertise and sell at dealer cost, if the dealer decides it would be advantageous to the dealer to do so? As a promotion to entice shoppers to the store, for example.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Charbax »

Archos products are always available at about 20% below MSRP on the open market. Sometimes from the first day they are introduced. Only requirement for that to happen fast is high volumes should be sold so that there is a resellers saturation. The more resellers have it, the more they compete, until the cheapest reseller sells it a $1 over the cost price.

Well it also obviously depends what type of margin resellers are getting on the latest Archos products based on MSRP. It may be between 10 and 25% I think. Depending on the product.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Chengbin »

Charbax wrote:Archos products are always available at about 20% below MSRP on the open market. Sometimes from the first day they are introduced. Only requirement for that to happen fast is high volumes should be sold so that there is a resellers saturation. The more resellers have it, the more they compete, until the cheapest reseller sells it a $1 over the cost price.

Well it also obviously depends what type of margin resellers are getting on the latest Archos products based on MSRP. It may be between 10 and 25% I think. Depending on the product.
Show me a place where I can find a 250GB 5 for $360 (20% off from their $450 MSRP)..
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Archos5Fan »

Certainly not advertised. (Not counting the Circuit City firesale) Price range from $449USD to mayber $439USD -- Dell and Scott offer lower prices with codes but don't advertise a lower price.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by kawiultraman »

Charbax wrote:Resale price maintenance thus price fixing remains illegal in Europe as far as I know. If some corrupt right wing supreme court in the USA on June 28 2007 repealed a 96 year old ruling on the matter, well I guess it'll have to be up to Obama to get some new reasonable judges on that supreme court and repeal such a disgraceful ruling.
.
Ah, so if the supreme court of the US disagrees with you, they are corrupt and disgraceful.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Charbax »

Chengbin wrote:
Charbax wrote:Archos products are always available at about 20% below MSRP on the open market. Sometimes from the first day they are introduced. Only requirement for that to happen fast is high volumes should be sold so that there is a resellers saturation. The more resellers have it, the more they compete, until the cheapest reseller sells it a $1 over the cost price.

Well it also obviously depends what type of margin resellers are getting on the latest Archos products based on MSRP. It may be between 10 and 25% I think. Depending on the product.
Show me a place where I can find a 250GB 5 for $360 (20% off from their $450 MSRP)..
There it's just around 14% off MSRP in the USA:

http://google.com/products/catalog?q=Ar ... ps-sellers

I told you it may swing between 10% and 25%.

In Europe for example Archos 5 60GB is 20% cheaper than MSRP:

http://preissuchmaschine.de/in-Portable ... -60GB.html
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Charbax »

kawiultraman wrote:
Charbax wrote:Resale price maintenance thus price fixing remains illegal in Europe as far as I know. If some corrupt right wing supreme court in the USA on June 28 2007 repealed a 96 year old ruling on the matter, well I guess it'll have to be up to Obama to get some new reasonable judges on that supreme court and repeal such a disgraceful ruling.
.
Ah, so if the supreme court of the US disagrees with you, they are corrupt and disgraceful.
Everyone agrees that the US Supreme Court is corrupt. It was basically proven with their decision on Bush vs Gore in 2000. 4 of them are picked by the Bush family, 2 by Reagan, 1 by Ford, only the last two Justices were picked by Bill Clinton. Obama needs to clean up in that Supreme Court big time.
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by kb »

Charbax wrote:
kawiultraman wrote:
Charbax wrote:Resale price maintenance thus price fixing remains illegal in Europe as far as I know. If some corrupt right wing supreme court in the USA on June 28 2007 repealed a 96 year old ruling on the matter, well I guess it'll have to be up to Obama to get some new reasonable judges on that supreme court and repeal such a disgraceful ruling.
.
Ah, so if the supreme court of the US disagrees with you, they are corrupt and disgraceful.
Everyone agrees that the US Supreme Court is corrupt. It was basically proven with their decision on Bush vs Gore in 2000. 4 of them are picked by the Bush family, 2 by Reagan, 1 by Ford, only the last two Justices were picked by Bill Clinton. Obama needs to clean up in that Supreme Court big time.
In the UK, all senior judges are picked, in practice, by the Prime Minister's staff. Technically they are appointed by the Queen on the advice of the Lord Chancellor or the Prime Minister, but it amounts to the same thing.

And you think the US should clean up its act?

Oddly enough, this doesn't seem to cause any overt political bias among UK judges. That is does in the USA is, I think, something that would need to be proven. Of course, that's not to say it isn't a rather peculiar situation (on both sides of the Atlantic).
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Re: Official MSRP pricing: 349Ôé¼ (3-cell) 379Ôé¼ (6-cell)

Post by Archos5Fan »

Charbax wrote:
Chengbin wrote:
Charbax wrote:Archos products are always available at about 20% below MSRP on the open market. Sometimes from the first day they are introduced. Only requirement for that to happen fast is high volumes should be sold so that there is a resellers saturation. The more resellers have it, the more they compete, until the cheapest reseller sells it a $1 over the cost price.

Well it also obviously depends what type of margin resellers are getting on the latest Archos products based on MSRP. It may be between 10 and 25% I think. Depending on the product.
Show me a place where I can find a 250GB 5 for $360 (20% off from their $450 MSRP)..
There it's just around 14% off MSRP in the USA:

http://google.com/products/catalog?q=Ar ... ps-sellers

I told you it may swing between 10% and 25%.

In Europe for example Archos 5 60GB is 20% cheaper than MSRP:

http://preissuchmaschine.de/in-Portable ... -60GB.html
$393USD advertised as "Open Box": Buy.com/Tech For Less. Not new. The others are $438-$449USD.
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