Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Archos Intel based Laptops
Charbax
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Charbax »

A $900 netbook isn't going to shakeup anything in my opinion. Sony's netbook is a good design, a high dots per inch but it's pretty crappy value for money. And Archos has no risk of losing market share no matter if they brand a netbook release or not.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by strikeback03 »

The P series will sell some just for its looks, but I'd guess its sales will be limited. It is way too expensive for the netbook market, and plenty of more traditional UMPCs offer as much or more performance in smaller sizes.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by cukee »

The rumor is correct. Archos is entering the netbook market. They release a netbook called
Archos 10. lol

http://www.dapreview.net/news.php?extend.4416
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by kb »

I just don't understand what Archos is playing at. The netbook market is already saturated, and many products already offer excellent value for money. You can already get a machine that appears to have a very similar (if not identical specification) to this new thing from Acer or Asus, among others.

Perhaps this is a cynical move to make a quick buck by selling hardware from some Chinese manufacturer that nobody outside China would touch with a long stick, by sticking branding on it which is at least recognizably European? Rather like Philips tried to do, sticking it's name on a range of Taiwanese laptops (that was a flop, too).
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Charbax »

kb wrote:I just don't understand what Archos is playing at.


You don't understand many things about this industry.

kb wrote:The netbook market is already saturated,


Nope, the netbook market is exploding. Based on the OLPC project, netbooks, which I call "cheaper lower power laptops", became 15% of the worldwide laptop market the first year since its release. Some estimates say that this year "cheaper lower power laptops" may amount to more than half of worldwide shipped, thus 50 million shipped units. You're pretty naive if you think that this huge new market should just be let to Acer, MSI, Samsung and Asus to have.

kb wrote:selling hardware from some Chinese manufacturer that nobody outside China would touch with a long stick,


I can guarantee you that 95% of netbooks are made by Chinese manufacturers, if not even the actual same manufacturer. That manufacturer is the second largest in China for consumer electronics. But then of course, you wouldn't know much about the consumer electronics industry, would you.

kb wrote:by sticking branding on it which is at least recognizably European? Rather like Philips tried to do, sticking it's name on a range of Taiwanese laptops (that was a flop, too).


Most of the laptop market today are brands sticking their logos on Chinese products. Have you heard about the MSI Wind? That one has the same specs as the Archos 10, and in Europe, it was mostly sold under the Medion Akoya Mini and the Advent brands. Not under the MSI Wind brand.

Also, all of Dell, Apple, basically all brands apart from Acer and slowly Asus and MSI and a few others, most brands have their Intel-powered stuff engineered, designed and manufactured by Chinese or Taiwanese ODM manufacturers.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Archos5Fan »

OK, so now we have a netbook. What can Archos do make the product innovative and different from the rest of the netbooks? That is the real question.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Charbax »

Archos5Fan wrote:OK, so now we have a netbook. What can Archos do make the product innovative and different from the rest of the netbooks? That is the real question.


You don't necessary need to be innovative when it comes to netbooks. They are all more or less the same.

Also funny thing, but Intel makes it illegal to be innovative when it comes to netbooks. You simply cannot licence the Intel Atom processor if you do anything else then the allowed reference designs, that's why all the netbooks are more or less the same at more or less the same prices.

What puts for example Acer on top today is probably their very strong control on their distribution channels, resellers and all that.

So it all comes down to how many and how good distribution deals Archos sales people can put in place. With supermarkets, online reseller and so forth. And if they have an HSDPA version, then distribution deals with telecoms.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Archos5Fan »

They are mostly the same (CPU/chipset) but to convince the common user to purchase it instead of an Acer, Sony, MSI, Asus, Samsung, Fujitsu, etc. It might be a tough sell in the USA with all the competition and the popular Apple laptops.

A high quality screen, large drive capacity (or let the user upgrade themselves to 250GB or larger), high quality audio output, even 802.11n -- these things would appeal to consumers expectations of Archos innovation and set Archos apart. Also the size is a bit large for where netbooks are heading so additional features to compensate for the size would be nice.

To put is simply, what will make this netbook an "Archos"? With the Archos 5 and 7 the differentiation is obvious. We need something obvious to all that the netbook is ARCHOS.

Maybe this thread should have the subject changed.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Charbax »

You are not allowed to put more than 160GB and 10.2" screen in a netbook. If you do, Intel won't allow you to use their processor and Microsoft won't allow you to put Windows XP on it.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Archos5Fan »

XP is a step backward despite all the criticism of Vista. I use 64-bit Vista everyday and it runs smoothly. Windows 7 is getting the press attention. Netbooks do not have to have XP installed, if I recall. It's a shame about the 160GB Intel limit, a real shame.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Charbax »

Netbooks have to use Windows XP or Linux, cause Vista is full of bloatware, takes up gigabytes of space for stuff nobody needs.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by dasdren09 »

So if they can't keep up with the problems with the archos 5, atleast they did one kinda smart thing, reebuild a working PC. I still think they should make one player work fully instead of putting all R&D into a new netbook. But thats me, otherwise, i kinda think it's nice-ish.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/20 ... _ebay.html

Price on there is about $470 range, which is actually not too bad. You know what would be awesome, a dock on the back of the PC you can attach your PC to to record from the DVR, lol

Or what about a GPS adapter

And lastly, PLUGINS FOR PC!, :) Sry had to bring in plugins
Last edited by dasdren09 on Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Archos5Fan
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Archos5Fan »

Sony is using Vista and reports are that it runs fairly quick and is using the Atom.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Archos5Fan »

Or is the 160GB limit Microsoft imposed for XP? Maybe it's just because of XP. Users could install Vista and then upgrade the drive. That would give the MSI U110 more competition.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Idire »

I installed Windows 7 and Vista on an advent with 1gb RAM and an Intel atom, they both run well. Windows 7 runs better than vista, and probably as fast/faster than XP
Archos 5, 250gb
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Archos5Fan »

It is my understanding that bootup/shutdown of 7 is much faster than Vista. I would think that if Windows 7 comes out soon many would update their XP netbooks. Maybe Archos will test with Windows 7.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Charbax »

Yup that's basically what Microsoft did with Windows 7, is to scale it down and remove some not needed bloatware things so that it runs better on lower power hardware. You can see that the Windows 7 beta OS download is smaller then the Windows Vista installation file.. So Microsoft did it on purpose to make it fit on netbooks cause they know they have to since "cheaper lower power laptops" are quickly going to dominate laptop sales.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by kb »

Charbax wrote:
kb wrote:I just don't understand what Archos is playing at.


You don't understand many things about this industry.



No, that's true. It's taken me 30 years in the computing and electronics industry to realize how little I know. I expect that by the time I retire I shall be very ignorant indeed.

Nevertheless, although many (most?) netbooks and laptops are made largely in China, there's a world of difference between a collaboration between Chinese and Western businesses to the benefit of both, and acting as a simple re-seller of Chinese products. Philips mini-laptops were a good example of this. They were cheap (boy, were they cheap), but there was no European support infrastructure (``Do we make that??''). It was impossible to get spares. There was no technical documentation in English. Warranty returns could not be honoured except by a complete replacement from the Chinese supplier. It was a flop.

And I just don't see that demand for netbooks currently outstrips supply, as you seem to suggest. UK retailers are aggressively cutting prices on these things. They really don't seem to be walking off the shelves. In the UK you can currently get a decent netbook for £170. The margins on these things must be absolutely miniscule, unless the retailers are all making a loss.

And Archos is already over-stretched, trying to develop and support its own products. How is it going to support somebody elses? If they're hoping that they will be able to outsource support to the Chinese manufacturer, they're in for a rude surprise.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by Charbax »

Again, cheaper lower power laptops are going to account for nearly half or more than half of shipped laptops this year. Up from about 15 percent last year, and close to zero percent the year before.

Do I need to make you a drawing? One in two laptops sold this year will be of that cheaper and lower power type.

The demand for cheaper and lower power laptops is exploding. And not being part of that is just stupid.

Basically it's half of a 100 billion + dollar Laptop industry that was dominated by Intel the previous years and that is suddenly up for grabs for new entrants. With now also a new potential of reaching huge increases of number of purchasers since cheaper and lower power laptops are well suited for the 5 billion people who don't yet have a computer.
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Re: Possibly New Archos - PM700???

Post by kb »

The problem is that there are already companies well placed to supply the demand for cheap low-power laptops, if that demand is really there. I'm not convinced it is there, but I don't think that makes much difference. If there is a demand, there are companies with well-established products, an established supply chain, and clued-up tech and support staff, who can easily gear up to meet the demand.

That there is a demand (if indeed there is) is not a sufficient reason for people to buy netbooks with Archos badges on, if for a similar price they can by the same thing with a brand they recognize and all their friends have. There needs to be something more than that to generate sales.

If Archos can supply a good, cheap netbook with, say, really sophisticated and inclusive media features, then that _might_ be enough to make people interested. Otherwise they will be competing on cost and brand and, unless other manufacturers really, really can't make netbooks fast enough to fill the shelves (and I doubt that) cost and brand won't swing it for Archos. Never has so far, anyway.

I remember we had this same argument about the Archos GPS add-on. I said that Archos was going to have a heck of a job to generate sales in a market which is already supplied with excellent, good-value products. Sure, it was clever. But (in the UK, anyway) it was priced similarly to a bunch of very good products. Result? No sales. It's quite difficult even to buy an Archos GPS unit in the UK now, even if you really want one.

Archos has always been able to compete in the media player market, because there its products have generally been much better than the competition. It's surely got to be better for Archos to try to increase its share of the PMP market, which is enormous, than to try to break into market areas where it has no experience and no following.
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