Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

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soundslike
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Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

Hello all--

I purchased a 250GB Archos 5 because it was essentially the only truly high-capacity dedicated PMP available at this time (a sad state of affairs, but that's another topic). I've had only one problem with it in the five months I've owned it: I own several thousand CDs/LPs, and I've ripped them all and tagged them properly; however, the Archos 5 will only tally 35,632 of the tracks (out of 38,557 I am certain are loaded on the player--and I have several thousand left to add). All files seem to be browse-able via the 'Hard Drive' browsing mode of the music player. However, I would like to be able to put all files on the player on random, via the 'Titles' "all titles" selection mode. I've tried scouring the internet and this forum for similar issues, but to my surprise, I've found no similar issues mentioned--and with a player as high-capacity as this, I'm surprised if I'm the only one turning to it for this purpose.

Below is my correspondence with the Archos "support" on the company website. In essence, the tech person stated he's seen players tally "50,000" mp3s. I'm currently using firmware 1.6.53, and his only question was "have you tried upgrading to 1.6.54," though I've read that this firmware makes no improvements and is possibly harmful, so I have not loaded it. If anyone has had or heard of similar issues, and has any suggestions for fixing the issue, I would very much appreciate your help.


My initial support correspondence:
My Archos 5 seems to be unable to read
> tags for or play more than 35,632 mp3s. Newly added files beyond that maximum
> are seemingly not recognised by the ArcLibrary update. I have currently loaded
> 38,557 mp3s (as counted when browsing in hard drive mode via Vista), all of
> which are carefully properly tagged using id3 v2.3 with correct Artist, Album,
> Title, Year, Genre, etc. information. Manually adding up the files via the
> "Hard Drive" browsing on the player, all the mp3s are accounted for, and on a
> folder-by-folder basis, all tracks seem to be playable if selected via the
> "Hard Drive" browsing method. However, when playing from the "Title" tag
> selection, only 35,632 tracks are displayed/played. A significant number of
> Albums/Artists also display incomplete number of tracks. Is there a limit to
> the number of files the Archos 5 will recognise, despite the stated capacity
> of 145,000
> (http://www.archos.com/products/imt/arch ... 5533;┬®=en)? I
> purchased a 250GB Archos 5 for the purpose of housing a very large and growing
> music collection, and so this apparent limitation is quite a disappointment.
> If there is any way to overcome this apparent mp3 limit, please let me know.
> If not, I may need to return the player.
Archos support's reply:
I have personally seen unit with more then 50,000 songs on them and have it report
all of them without a problem. Have you tried installing the 1.6.54 firmware?

Thank you,
Tim S
Archos Technical Support
To which I responded:
As a test, I temporarily removed several thousand of the files, and re-updated the ARCLibrary. At that time, the file count was correct, when adding up individual genre folders via the 'Hard Drive' browsing mode, compared to the "all titles" count under the "Titles" tag browsing mode. Returning enough of the files to go over the apparent maximum count for the 'Titles' mode, I then checked again--and again, manually adding up the mp3 totals comes to a different amount than the 'Titles' total--36,744 (manually added) versus 35,632 ('Titles' total in ARCLibrary).

This is a very frustrating problem, as if I had known there were an artificially induced limit to the "all titles" that could be played on random, I would've bought a smaller capacity player, or not bought the Archos 5 at all.

I would greatly appreciate a more detailed response and a solution to this problem. Thank you.
Again, many thanks for any suggestions or help!
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by roylovelock »

out of intrest have you put all your mp3s in one single folder, if that is the case you would be better off putting them in thier own sub folders so the arclib can do its thing. the support is correct ive got about 40k mp3 files on my machine and the is reporting 40k.
if this isnt the case it may be worth running a scan disk and check the condition of hard drive as if there is a bad sector, / corruption it will cause the arclib update to fail. after clear your cache and settings and give it another go.
roy
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by jl97delsol »

My hard drive on the archos has never been correct regarding number of songs nor how much space is left. Till this day it say 99.7 percent empty. Even though I have about 70K songs on it.
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

roylovelock wrote:out of intrest have you put all your mp3s in one single folder, if that is the case you would be better off putting them in thier own sub folders so the arclib can do its thing. the support is correct ive got about 40k mp3 files on my machine and the is reporting 40k.
if this isnt the case it may be worth running a scan disk and check the condition of hard drive as if there is a bad sector, / corruption it will cause the arclib update to fail. after clear your cache and settings and give it another go.
roy
Oh gosh no. I'm pretty anal retentive about my file tree. I have about 30 [Genre] primary folders, each with dozens to hundreds of individual-album folders therein.

When you select "all titles" in the 'Titles' browsing mode, it reports 40k? You can put 40k files on random?

I'll give what you said a try, thanks. When I watch the ARCLibrary go through a scan, it appears to get through everything, down to (last) the few videos I'm storing--there's no apparent failure. It would be pretty odd for it to have a bad sector, as I've really never deleted much of anything, only added.

How do you clear the cache and settings, though?

Many thanks!
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

So scanning the disc for errors/bad sectors takes about 15 minutes to get <1% (guess, from the scan bar) complete. My fear is that as the 5 seems not to be able to be powered sufficiently via USB to have the drive in constant use (as when transferring massive amounts of files at once) it will run out of battery power before the scan is completed.

Anyone had any success running the scan/check disk? How long is it supposed to take?
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

Ah, great--and now when I attempt to run the scan, it just quits the scan/exits out of the scan window within 10 seconds.
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by roylovelock »

it will take a long time that is normal. if you want a better program try adrc hard disk checker. it will still take a long time so make sure your player is fully charged before hand to save it running low or out.
all hard drives have bad sectors on delivery, at the current prices charged for hard drives its almost impossible to sell a hard drive bad sector free, if they did you would find the drives would be 4x more expensive.
scandisk crashing out like that would point me to having bad sectors so run this program overnight as it will take a couple of hours and hopefully that will solve the problem.
roy
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

Clearing the cache upped the maximum--to 35,666. So I guess it's not some sort of hard max, like my old Meizu M6 that had a limit of 2,014 files, period. Just doesn't make any sense. . .
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

This is getting absurd--on a full charge, the unit can't get through a complete scan disk with "scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors" checked without running out of battery power. Gets what looks like ~80%-85% of the way through.

Nobody else has ever heard of this problem of having an apparent upper limit of mp3s the ARCLibrary will catalogue, leaving out thousands past that approximate number?

Support wants to do an RMA, but I'm not really interested in paying shipping to send off my player for weeks with likely no improvement. . .
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

roylovelock wrote:it will take a long time that is normal. if you want a better program try adrc hard disk checker. it will still take a long time so make sure your player is fully charged before hand to save it running low or out.
all hard drives have bad sectors on delivery, at the current prices charged for hard drives its almost impossible to sell a hard drive bad sector free, if they did you would find the drives would be 4x more expensive.
scandisk crashing out like that would point me to having bad sectors so run this program overnight as it will take a couple of hours and hopefully that will solve the problem.
roy

Looking through ADRC's support text, it's unclear to me--does the program attempt to fix bad sectors when if finds them?
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by cryptyk »

Just sounding off to say that the number of files you're having trouble randomizing is eerily close to the number that can be held in a signed 16bit number (32767).
When we write software, we have to decide how much memory to allocate to a variable. If the Archos developers used a short int (16 bit unsigned int) for the indexer into the shuffle-playlist, it might run into problems around 32k files.
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

cryptyk wrote:Just sounding off to say that the number of files you're having trouble randomizing is eerily close to the number that can be held in a signed 16bit number (32767).
When we write software, we have to decide how much memory to allocate to a variable. If the Archos developers used a short int (16 bit unsigned int) for the indexer into the shuffle-playlist, it might run into problems around 32k files.
I'd thought of that--but it seems like it would be hard-limited at exactly 32,767, no? The Archos people certainly claim they've "never encountered this problem before," and others here have said they've seen players with more files accounted for in the Title/Album/Genre/Artist tag browsing methods. If this is a software problem, I just can't imagine I'm the first to experience it--there aren't lots of us, but there've got to be at least a couple thousand people who purchased such a capacious player in order to listen to very large music collections. . . Yet I can't really find a similar complaint here on the forum, or doing any search I can think of on Google.
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by subgr »

If they have used a 16 bit unsigned indexer then the limit should be at 65535 values and there is no reason to use signed which will limit them to 32767 (there canÔÇÖt be negative indexes). This is been proven also by having more than 35000 titles in your database.

It seems more likely that your indexing process is for some reason not working properly. I guess reasons for that will be long paths (number of characters inclusive folders, subfolders and the filename), non standard characters and hard disk issues.

About the length of the path, I would guess that it may be different than the one you are able to count. That is because you are able to copy all the files in to the unit with no errors. But since the HDD is mounted on ArchosÔÇÖs OS then some more characters may be added in front the root folder which are visible to the indexing process (more than it can handle).

The question is, have you identified any of the songs that you are missing from your library? WhatÔÇÖs the length of the path and do they have standard characters?
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

subgr wrote:If they have used a 16 bit unsigned indexer then the limit should be at 65535 values and there is no reason to use signed which will limit them to 32767 (there canÔÇÖt be negative indexes). This is been proven also by having more than 35000 titles in your database.

It seems more likely that your indexing process is for some reason not working properly. I guess reasons for that will be long paths (number of characters inclusive folders, subfolders and the filename), non standard characters and hard disk issues.

About the length of the path, I would guess that it may be different than the one you are able to count. That is because you are able to copy all the files in to the unit with no errors. But since the HDD is mounted on ArchosÔÇÖs OS then some more characters may be added in front the root folder which are visible to the indexing process (more than it can handle).

The question is, have you identified any of the songs that you are missing from your library? WhatÔÇÖs the length of the path and do they have standard characters?

There's no distinct pattern to the files that go missing in terms of path length or characters--it's all about going over or under that number. If I delete the "excess" files over the 35,666 number--say, to 34,000+/-, then all but say a random 20 or so are found by the ARCLibrary. So it really does seem to have to do with a magic number, not anything else that I can detect. : \
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by fenomeen »

Hi Soundslike.

I had the same problem with my 60 gb archos 5. I saw 4055 songs in my library, but there were 4171 in my data folder. Frustrated with this problem I tried many things. What came out as a solution for me:
update ARC Library manualy again and again. After doing this a few times, I noticed my total went up to 4072. After another 5 or so manual updates it got to 4082, then 4105. I noticed that after a restart my number went down again to 4092 (???). Again multiple updates later it got back to 4125.
Sometimes nothing was added, sometimes only 2 titles...
I am currently at 4135 at which it seems to stay. Anyway, it's better than 4055.

Do not ask me how, I don't see any logic in this either, but for me it worked. No perfect solution neither, but hopefully it helps you a bit (if it's not too late).
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by janalbert »

Hi,
Sad to to let you know that I have about the same problem. Same as Soundslike I wanted a large capacity mp3 player for my complete music collection with the possibility to play the whole lot at random. I already have a A705 (160 GB) which is filled for 98% so for the extra 90 GB I decided to buy the A5. I also liked the smaller size of the machine.
I have 40182 mp3's to put in the machine. The transfer went alright, however in the 'titles' chapter there were only 35745 files.
I tried changing the ID3 version from 2.3 to 2.2 (2.4 didn't work on my A705 so I didn't try it now) but that was no use.
I tried copying in U.S.B. disk mode from my Linux desktop computer as well from my windows xp laptop and I tried synchronizing with windows media player (which resulted in only 10000 titles) as well with Amarok v4.1 (a Linux media player). The 'titles' never got beyond 35745.
In my Linux desktop I have the music stored in directories of 100 mp3's. So it was easy for me to remove a directory when I passed the 35745 border and replace it by another directory but I got no results this way.
What worked fine with my A705 doesn't work at all with my A5.
On the Archos site they advertised with 145000 music pieces for the A5
At this moment all this has cost me lost of time and I am about to return the machine to my reseller unless a solution turns up very fast. http://forum.archosfans.com/posting.php ... 35&t=24676#
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

janalbert wrote:Hi,
Sad to to let you know that I have about the same problem. Same as Soundslike I wanted a large capacity mp3 player for my complete music collection with the possibility to play the whole lot at random. I already have a A705 (160 GB) which is filled for 98% so for the extra 90 GB I decided to buy the A5. I also liked the smaller size of the machine.
I have 40182 mp3's to put in the machine. The transfer went alright, however in the 'titles' chapter there were only 35745 files.
I tried changing the ID3 version from 2.3 to 2.2 (2.4 didn't work on my A705 so I didn't try it now) but that was no use.
I tried copying in U.S.B. disk mode from my Linux desktop computer as well from my windows xp laptop and I tried synchronizing with windows media player (which resulted in only 10000 titles) as well with Amarok v4.1 (a Linux media player). The 'titles' never got beyond 35745.
In my Linux desktop I have the music stored in directories of 100 mp3's. So it was easy for me to remove a directory when I passed the 35745 border and replace it by another directory but I got no results this way.
What worked fine with my A705 doesn't work at all with my A5.
On the Archos site they advertised with 145000 music pieces for the A5
At this moment all this has cost me lost of time and I am about to return the machine to my reseller unless a solution turns up very fast. http://forum.archosfans.com/posting.php ... 35&t=24676#
Do you recall if you loaded all the files on the machine at once? I find it odd that we're having the same basic problem--but your "cut off" number is slightly higher than mine--these are machines, it seems like they should be consistent in their errors. The only thing I can think of to try now is to clear off the machine, and load the albums in smaller increments, say 5,000+/- mp3s at a time, and update the ArcLib each time, rather than loading them all at once.

That said, it definitely finds 99.9% of all files, if I remove enough (any albums, doesn't matter which) that there are fewer than 35,666 mp3s. I spent the last month dealing with a health crisis, two weeks in the hospital, and I never heard back from the Archos help during all that time after they asked me to send them information for an RMA.
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by jeffharris »

I just bought an Archos 5 Android 500 MB, and, even on this device, I can't seem to get more than 35,745 songs on the ARCLibrary update. I've tried several times to rescen. I have 61,000 songs This sucks!!! The whole reaosn I bought the Archos is it's the only PMP that can house this amount of data.

Any update on a fix? I will contact Archos this week.
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by janalbert »

It's some time since I wrote about my adventures with my Archos 5.
I send my Archo5 back to the reseller and they send it to Archos repair centre for repairs. (RMA)
After about a month or more it came back. They didn't find a problem according to the repair report.
And indeed they didn't find a fault: the fault was still there!
So I consulted my reseller again. They consulted Archos Netherlands (the importing agency and experts).
Later I consulted the importing agency directly. They came up with all kind of suggestions like: using less folders with more files or the other way around. Or putting the mp3 files directly in the Music folder without folders or subfolders. In the last case I got a message that the machine was full after 20000 and some more files. They told me this was normal.
All this rearranging of files and folders leaded to nothing as I silently expected.
The sixth time I phoned the importer I got someone on the phone who told me the machine could not be repaired. The machine was build this way. There is a very slight chance that a future firmware upgrade will take care of this problem. So now I returned my machine back to the reseller for money back.
I also asked why there weren't so much complaints like this and they answered that's because most people put a lot of pictures and movies in it and not so much mp3 files.
Remarkable: if you search this site for more complaints like ours it is always archos 5 that causes trouble. I didn't find these complaints with archos7 or other models.
I was disapointed to read that the archo5 android has the same trouble. I regarded it as an alternative for my archos 5.
What alternatives are there: small size, large capacity?
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Re: Archos 5 250GB - Maximum of 35,632 (mp3) titles?

Post by soundslike »

I've held out slim hope that one of the new hacks or Developer Firmware will somehow fix this situation--absurd to hear even the new Android devices suffer it. And hilarious that they won't simply admit there's a problem--and that they advertise "45,000 songs" for the old 5's.

I never sent mine in because I figured they'd say there was no problem they could find, and I'd probably have to reload all my data and be without the music for weeks.
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