NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Special Developer Edition Firmwares and Hacking on Archos 5 IT, 5/7 IMT, 605/705, with Android, ├àngstr├Âm and other Linux
L0wt3ch
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:42 am

NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by L0wt3ch »

It's nice to see a real hacking scene here on archosfans. It wasn't always so.

I stumbled on this site the day fiat originally hacked the Archos 605 wifi, and watched the scene that briefly developed quickly die. While this was mostly the result of Archos releasing a firmware upgrade that closed the hack and prevented new visitors from utilizing the original GFT hack, there was a long period during which it was possible to hack the 605 without much difficulty.

However, the forum at that time was dominated by a group calling themselves OpenPMA (bubu, kb, and grond), who swooped in and took over everything. They promised us the moon, making big promises, getting everybody's hopes up, and playing up to their little fanboys, for months on end. They released screenshots of popular Linux apps (like Firefox and the GIMP, etc.) running on the Archos (which were always supposed to be released "in some weeks") and the output of "uname -r" showing their own kernel running. While they did release a broken alpha-version of Qtopia, they never did release anything useful. Instead, they spent their time here on the forum scolding people for wanting to get a free web browser, telling people why their hacking ideas wouldn't work, insulting anyone who disagreed with Archos' business practices (at the time!), and making excuses. The effect of this was that they basically crowded out real development of any decent software for the Archos, and everybody just waited around for them to release their "working Qtopia".

After a while I started getting suspicious. So did fiat. When I read fiat's comment, "If anybody is an Archos mole it's the OpenPMA guys.. The 'hai we cracked the firmware' with no release is a pretty good indicator. If they had a firmware hack, Archos couldn't stop them, so why all the secrecy?" that solidified it for me. I began to make fun of them for their false promises. I also started putting hurt on their rep for their low opinion of the GPL. (My defenses of software freedom and the GPL can be found in what used to be the garbage bin here, and here. Also: here.) This resulted in several spirited debates which ended up in me being called a troll! For daring to confront OpenPMA, I was almost kicked off of the forum.

Three years ago, I posted my first "working Qtopia released" April Fool's, and two years ago I did it again. Shortly after, forum user cyclonezephyrxz7 posted a private message from OpenPMA's grond, wherein he told him that they had actually obtained root access to the device a long time before, but wouldn't release it. I reposted it in my aforementioned April Fool's thread, and war ensued. OpenPMA were exposed!

While the members of OpenPMA were still arguing with me, I sent a private message to fiat with a link, asking if he cared to comment. Well, he didn't. Instead, he came back to the forum as the great Archilles! (I hope it's ok for me to finally tell them that, Archilles. :D )

Archilles put an end to the debate by root-hacking the Archos himself, and releasing all the plugins to the world for free. Now no-one could say "well we can't release anything because Archos might lose money on their stupid plugins". The point was moot!

When Archos staff "nz" got involved in a hacking thread, I pounced on the opportunity to ask him (and Archos) to open up their devices. I bugged him more than once, offering the carrot of a submission to Slashdot if Archos did so.

Well to everyone's surprise, they released their "developer's firmware" shortly thereafter. (This is commonly credited to Archilles for opening up their previous devices and threatening to open their newest.) Charbax submitted an article about Archos' generosity, and Slashdot published it! (High-five, Charbax!)

Suddenly we had almost all-new faces here on the forum, hacking away. The rest, as they say, is history. ;)
Last edited by L0wt3ch on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
grond
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:37 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by grond »

You are a hero.

The people you have been insulting for years are precisely the same people now doing openAOS. OpenPMA just got rebranded to openAOS, the two are even hosted on the same server. Kevin who did all the original work for the openAOS releases for the A5 is kb from this forum, Bubu is currently too busy with real work to contribute much, dm8tbr (also a founding member of openPMA) has done a lot recently, I don't do much because I'm not a programmer.

It was pretty obvious that archilles was fiat when he took Kevin's code for reading and writing the bootflash and released it as his own l33t h4x0r c0d3.

And to spoil all the fun: Archos didn't open up their devices because of archilles but because of tax advantages because with an alternative operating system available they can now declare their products as being computers rather than only media players.
openAOS
LuciferTengu
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 441
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: California

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by LuciferTengu »

nz wrote:
Ate_Bit wrote:Now that the SDE has been out for a while, and people are starting to test things out, it raises a question for me:

If the community creates new apps for the IMT, how did Archos think that other people would be able to take advantage of them? :roll:
Expecting the masses to install the SDE is not an option, and they even state it is not ready for that.
Can a AOS file be used to install files? It appears that Archos designed it only for firmwares.

Confused and dazed... :?:
we did not expect the "masses" to install the SDE, we released it so that "hackers" could have access to the hardware and "do their own thing", which they have been asking us for all the time...
Source

Just my two cents.
-LT
L0wt3ch
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:42 am

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by L0wt3ch »

Oh Grond, I never claimed to be a hero. I just thought the new people on the forum might be interested in the history of the hacking forum here. It's all true isn't it?

Left to your own devices (pun not intended), openPMA accomplished nothing. What you did accomplish, you kept to yourself. It took real hackers to re-kickstart the scene for you to come back as contributors. OpenPMA was one of the biggest jokes I've ever seen in a hacking community.

We've had this discussion before. I'll have it again, if you like. 8)

PS - Surprise! I have multiple aliases on this forum as well. Can you guess which ones?
grond
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:37 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by grond »

L0wt3ch wrote:Surprise! I have multiple aliases on this forum as well. Can you guess which ones?
Everybody who does not call you a troll.
openAOS
L0wt3ch
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:42 am

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by L0wt3ch »

So... about fifty thousand people, then?

You disappoint me, grond. I expected something more snippy. How's the patent law profession treating you these days? :lol:
divx118
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:48 pm
Contact:

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by divx118 »

Normally I ignore your posts, but since you again are insulting people to get some attention instead of doing self some contributing to the scene. I just want to say this. [-X

Maurice 8)
L0wt3ch
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:42 am

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by L0wt3ch »

lol Maurice.

Not really fair, tho. :D
rsksmiles
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:30 pm

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by rsksmiles »

grond wrote:You are a hero.
And to spoil all the fun: Archos didn't open up their devices because of archilles but because of tax advantages because with an alternative operating system available they can now declare their products as being computers rather than only media players.
I think I find this the most disturbing. It shows a darker manipulative side to Archos. Instead of providing a real os for their computer they provide the sde. Such great respect that they show their customers.

If the new range of archos 5 and 7 home tablets render the old ones obsolete then why don't they open up the old imts so that you can install stuff on the archos os instead of messing around with the sde?

Yours naive

Client who believed the hype
grond
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:37 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by grond »

rsksmiles wrote:If the new range of archos 5 and 7 home tablets render the old ones obsolete then why don't they open up the old imts so that you can install stuff on the archos os instead of messing around with the sde?
That's precisely what they did. The SDE is just one example of what you could put on the device. Once you have installed it, you can install any OS you want, however, it is up to you to actually do so. If you want and are able to, you can port WinCE. You just have to do it.

EDIT: Sorry, when I clicked "Submit", I noticed that I misread your message.

Opening AVOS isn't really an option for them. First of all it just isn't designed to allow 3rd party programs. It would have taken a huge amount of work to make it accept user-installed programs. Secondly, the Android based devices allow for that feature (which makes the SDE for the A5it a bit pointless). And then there is still no reason to help their competitors and open their code.
openAOS
cyclonezephyrxz7
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:00 pm

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by cyclonezephyrxz7 »

@ L0wt3ch: Personally, I feel it is great that you posted that bit of history to the forums.

@all: It is just such a pity that even through all that the A605 and A604, and models like those, never saw significant 'homebrew' running. I do have to give great credit, however, to Sideways for providing the only (? or at least the better of the few) home-brewed programs for the A605. Awesome job Sideways.

*And have some trust that if I were at least somewhat familiar with how to code for Linux OSes, or to code with C for that matter, I would have jumped into the scene and tried to provide my own apps. However, my coding time goes to WinMobile...*
Spz0
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by Spz0 »

This post lost all credibility with the introduction of slander. Biographies on events should be non-bius and certainly not resort to name calling.
Imo, this post reeks and should be locked or removed. Its a flame fest waiting to happen.
:-&
www.openAOS.org
rsksmiles
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:30 pm

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by rsksmiles »

grond wrote:That's precisely what they did. The SDE is just one example of what you could put on the device. Once you have installed it, you can install any OS you want, however, it is up to you to actually do so. If you want and are able to, you can port WinCE. You just have to do it.
Hang on a minute ... a pc can have multiple os installed and is relatively easy to do so. I would not call angstrom anywhere being a viable alternative os. I do not see any docs on how to implement another os either.
grond wrote:Opening AVOS isn't really an option for them. First of all it just isn't designed to allow 3rd party programs.

What like Opera is not a 3rd party app? Am I missing something?
grond wrote: It would have taken a huge amount of work to make it accept user-installed programs.

Less effort than the SDE?
spz0 wrote:This post lost all credibility with the introduction of slander. Biographies on events should be non-bius and certainly not resort to name calling. Imo, this post reeks and should be locked or removed. Its a flame fest waiting to happen.
Please calm down. ;)

I am giving up with my archos. It is a good bit of hardware let down by poor software. I will not ever name call. I bought a 9 year old fujitsu siemens tablet and put in a 160gig drive, it has 256mb ram, win xpsp2. I have my music, books and films on it which I can watch in 800x600. I have pcmcia cards for wifi, rj45 and usb2. IMHO it beats the archos 7 hands down.

Signing off in quiet France (there are no planes flying for some reason)
Spz0
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by Spz0 »

rsksmiles wrote: Please calm down. ;)

I am giving up with my archos. It is a good bit of hardware let down by poor software. I will not ever name call. I bought a 9 year old fujitsu siemens tablet and put in a 160gig drive, it has 256mb ram, win xpsp2. I have my music, books and films on it which I can watch in 800x600. I have pcmcia cards for wifi, rj45 and usb2. IMHO it beats the archos 7 hands down.

Signing off in quiet France (there are no planes flying for some reason)
:lol:
Just talking sense, and that sometimes gets mis-interpreted as getting ones panties in a bunch. Make no mistake -- This cat here? Calm and cool as a kitten m8. Always am. 8)
My prior comment lies in the fact that I don't think the OP slandering openpma or anyone helping move the Open Dev. movement forward is appropriate for a biography, or appropriate in general. Everyone here is working to advance the open dev. movement forward (even greenhorns like myself), and it will happen at its own pace regardless if people decide to keep bits of info to themselves for whatever reason that may be.
Bottom line is that slandering and/or antagonizing people who have the same end-goal in mind is counter productive in a big way.
www.openAOS.org
L0wt3ch
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:42 am

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by L0wt3ch »

@Spz0: This post wasn't meant to be an attack on openPMA, but tell the tale of how a few people overcame the problems we had here and resurrected the scene. And it's not slander if it's all true. (Which it is.)

@cyclonezephyrxz7: Thanks! :D

@rsksmiles: I sympathize with you, it does seem illogical that a Linux-based machine would be so locked down. However, LT above is probably correct, and Grond's explanation is probably bogus. Given that Archos themselves say they gave us the alternative firmware because we asked them for it, I think Grond pulled that explanation out of his hat.
Spz0
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by Spz0 »

L0wt3ch wrote:@Spz0: This post wasn't meant to be an attack on openPMA, but tell the tale of how a few people overcame the problems we had here and resurrected the scene. And it's not slander if it's all true. (Which it is.)

.
Calling people Losers is most definitely an attack. :)
We've only heard one side thus far, and the way in which you chose to convey your opinions and anger destroys your credibility and screams slander, defamation and resent regardless if your statements are in fact true or false (I'd like to hear the other side if anyone cares enough to post).
I think you could have got your point across way better and retained said credibility if you remained impartial instead of antagonizing, and remained balanced instead of resorting to name calling...

With above comments aside, thanks for speaking out. :)
[/quit]
www.openAOS.org
L0wt3ch
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:42 am

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by L0wt3ch »

"Losers" deleted. 8) Sorry.
LuciferTengu
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 441
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: California

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by LuciferTengu »

rsksmiles wrote: Signing off in quiet France (there are no planes flying for some reason)
Its because one of Iceland's volcanoes is pumping out a bunch of ash, (which can stall a plane) that is being blown over a bit of Europe. http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1103a ... lcano.html
-LT
grond
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:37 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by grond »

Spz0 wrote:We've only heard one side thus far
No, we have heard all sides before. He just keeps ignoring the facts that don't fit his version. E.g. the fact that from day 1 we said that we would never do anything that could hurt Archos business and that this precisely was the reason to not publish the bootloader hacks for the 605 and the a5. Instead we decided to take the long road and reengineer the whole cryptographic stuff that protects the bootloader in order to just replace the keys and validly sign everything else. He also ignores the fact that anyone could have picked up the qtopia we released and fixed the remaining issues. It just never happened because this is mostly a "community" of leechers (free plugins and free everything and please quick!). Have you noticed how he ignores the fact that openAOS is openPMA? He turned around quickly and resorted to "well, I just wanted to tell the true story..."

He is just a troll.
openAOS
rsksmiles
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:30 pm

Re: NOW IT CAN BE TOLD!!!

Post by rsksmiles »

LuciferTengu wrote:
rsksmiles wrote: Signing off in quiet France (there are no planes flying for some reason)
Its because one of Iceland's volcanoes is pumping out a bunch of ash, (which can stall a plane) that is being blown over a bit of Europe. http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1103a ... lcano.html
Hey LT read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony :lol:
Locked

Return to “Open Development”