An ultimatum for archos

[doroyce05]

wow. i'm on board this thread. waiting for the gen6 a5 stuff.

good job man

[drummerman]

Everytime a new version of flash is released, Archos devices error. I didn't appreciate that when I had mine. Not to mention you only could run stuff Archos wanted you to run.
The units ended up costing big bucks, but returned little versatility.
Not to mention. The units don't last long. If you got a year out of it, you were lucky. Anymore that, your a very lucky person. You might want to buy a lottery ticket.

[cyclonezephyrxz7]

Everytime a new version of flash is released, Archos devices error. I didn't appreciate that when I had mine. Not to mention you only could run stuff Archos wanted you to run.
The units ended up costing big bucks, but returned little versatility.
Not to mention. The units don't last long. If you got a year out of it, you were lucky. Anymore that, your a very lucky person. You might want to buy a lottery ticket.

I do hate the Flash issue. Hopefully with the opened up units (I have a 605 30GB running Moldy Cheese on 1.7.13) there will be a way to update the horribly outdated browser, which is useless for a good deal of web-browsing [,oh did i say it was horrible already?].

I have also gotten 2 years out of my unit already...and I use it pretty frequently. I guess I should go out and buy myself a winning lottery ticket! haha

[archilles]

remember, remember the fifth of november...



*edit to make the picture a better size.

[Deejay300]

HD video?

[Charbax]

Is your idea that Archos release a "Hackers plugin", which would require registering ones serial number to instantly give up on the regular warranty and then be allowed to just execute ubuntu or android or arbitrary code from hackers?

Isn't the problem that the hardware acceleration for multimedia playback probably can't be "hacked".

For example, if you run Android on 605 WiFi, you won't have the whole Archos OS part of the OS and any multimedia parts would have to be run on the ARM core of the processor only, which probably is not going to work even for QVGA video and only play perhaps some audio if hackers are really talented. Though probably not even recommended cause the ARM core should be only used in burst mode and not sustain the decoding of multimedia files.

That is, unless Archos somehow later release "drivers" to access some of the hardware acceleration legally on hacked firmwares also in regards to legally licencing codecs?

[alsutton]

I've got to say it looks like getting Android on old old 5 could be a step closer .

Work has been done to get a complete open source build of Android working which doesn't rely on any HTC stuff, there's already support for OMAP processors in the Android git repo, and a lot of the drivers can be pulled from the GPL tarball Archos for the gen6 released (an possibly updates found).

Although you wouldn't have all the hardware acceleration for codecs right out of the door, you would have access to a world of Android apps and someone may take on the hardware acceleration challenge.

Looking good .

[grond]

remember, remember the fifth of november...

Well done...

Once you know one Archos bootloader, you know them all. The 604, 605 and A5 bootloaders are almost identical, the a5it is slightly different but with all the important bits being the same as before.

[archilles]

my idea is for archos to not abandon their customers. read the ultimatum again. the latest debacle with the gen7 illustrates my point quite nicely (which i am considering working on too. anybody want to donate some hardware?)

the hardware acceleration can be used without avos. it's their drm that they want to keep underwraps. think protected wma, rented movies, etc. i haven't gone after that. yet. and the arm core should have plenty of power to do 90% of the things most of us bought archos for in the first place.

alsutton, are you an android expert? are you interested in working on an android port to the gen6? since we know that archos will never do it. i am willing to help that effort. please get in contact with me if yes.

[alsutton]

alsutton, are you an android expert? are you interested in working on an android port to the gen6? since we know that archos will never do it. i am willing to help that effort. please get in contact with me if yes.

I've PMed you some info.

[Charbax]

the hardware acceleration can be used without avos.

If that were true, then why would Archos still use their AVOS in Gen7?

I think Texas Instruments and Archos work with proprietary codec software providers that licence their proprietary codecs and provide in non-free ways so hackers can't just get access to that functionality.

So when Archos licences a codec, it's not for example only for paying the standard codec licence to the patent holders, but it's also licencing the actual codec software optimized for the specific DSP core of the processor.

For example on a PC, you pay one part to the Mpeg2 consortium and one other part to the PowerDVD software company that implement Mpeg2 DVD playback. Or you pay one part to the Mpeg4 and H264 codec consortium and another part to the DivX software company. While it is debatable as far as I've understood if VLC and Mplayer even are legal to install and use without supposedly paying for all those decoder licences. Although decoding is much cheaper than encoding, even free for X86 playback in many cases.

[alsutton]

Separating Avos from the Android framework means they don't have to merge all the code that's currently in AVOS into Android is when there is a new release (I'm not talking new versions here, there were several releases of Android 1.1 and 1.5 for the G1 which addressed bugs).

That way they can stay with one version of the Avos core and deploy it to the old A5, the current A5, and the 'phone tablet just by setting some re-compilation switches and they'd only have to update the Archos Android widget if necessary.

It fits in with the launch presentation which showed the Archos framework (i.e AVOS) separate from Android.

[archilles]

charbax, this is your site man, but please refrain from making technical claims that are completely wrong. alsutton got it right on the head. and the /dev/dsp device is there for the using. all you need to know is how to talk to it to make it do what you want. what archos pays for is the compiler with the abilities to compile code for that device, if i understand it correctly

[grond]

what archos pays for is the compiler with the abilities to compile code for that device, if i understand it correctly

Possible but that doesn't make Charbax' claim false:

http://focus.ti.com/dsp/docs/dspsupport ... tabId=1460

Texas Instruments works with a number of companies which offer all kinds of codecs for their chips. Most (if not all) OMAPs have an ARM-core, a DSP from the c??x-series and a vector engine for video stuff. The c??x-DSP does offer some extra horsepower but AFAIK is directed mostly at audio-applications. You won't get much out of it with regard to video codecs. Since the c??x-DSPs are pretty popular outside the PMP-world there should be quite a lot of information about them. Somebody even started to add support for them to gcc but the project never got anywhere. So I guess you need to get a commercial compiler for it. There should be several to choose from.

The video engine, on the other hand, has always been a top-secret processor and there isn't even any documentation about its instruction set. Only the TI compiler can produce code for it and you will only get it together with documentation under NDA and for a lot of $$$.

I doubt that a community project will be able to offer media support comparable to that of the original Archos players. As already said (and demonstrated) you can add ogg, flac and other audio codecs which will run fine even on the ARM processor but I'm very pessimistic about video formats. Again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't try. This is just a discussion that pops up every other month at least since the Archos PMA was hacked.

[archilles]

i guess the part that makes it false was saying that it cant be done. because it can.

whether it will be done or not is another question, but let's not go around saying it's impossible, because it most assuredly is. we even have a reference implementation, avos.

[soviet123]

remember, remember the fifth of november...

Archilles, I have a couple of questions regarding this.
1. Will this bill work on an A7 320GB?
2. If yes, will I be able to connect my A7 (320GB) to a PC/Mac/Ubuntu/Fedora/Mandriva?
3. Will this bill open up (or block) any functions?
4. If this bill FUBARs my A7 320GB, can I roll back to my original firmware?
Thanks!

[Junior]

You know, if I didnt hate linux so much I could do so much with this...stuff. Dont get me wrong, linux is a wonderful OS. Its just there are no shortcuts in understanding it. I can run it. I love the command aspect of it. But to start modifying its code...you have to start from scratch. And those that can really appreciate it can do the thing on its own so...

[vl4doman]

The video engine, on the other hand, has always been a top-secret processor and there isn't even any documentation about its instruction set. Only the TI compiler can produce code for it and you will only get it together with documentation under NDA and for a lot of $$$.

I doubt that a community project will be able to offer media support comparable to that of the original Archos players. As already said (and demonstrated) you can add ogg, flac and other audio codecs which will run fine even on the ARM processor but I'm very pessimistic about video formats. Again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't try. This is just a discussion that pops up every other month at least since the Archos PMA was hacked.

Actually, for the OMAP3 most of the "top secret" video stuff is public and documented... check the TRM (technical reference manual)

[grond]

Actually, for the OMAP3 most of the "top secret" video stuff is public and documented... check the TRM (technical reference manual)

Thanks for correcting me. Is this only true for the OMAP3 or also for older OMAP processors?

[vl4doman]

Actually, for the OMAP3 most of the "top secret" video stuff is public and documented... check the TRM (technical reference manual)

Thanks for correcting me. Is this only true for the OMAP3 or also for older OMAP processors?

No idea, but OMAP1 and 2 did not have the "top secret" video stuff anyway...