iPod Touch Vs. Archos 605

These topics will not be moderated (only spam is deleted)
yazan3k
Archos Novice
Archos Novice
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:51 am

iPod Touch Vs. Archos 605

Post by yazan3k »

I've been waiting ages for Archos to release the 605 in Canada. I don't know what's keeping them long...

Now news comes out that Apple will be releasing the iPod touch. It seems to cost about the same as the Archos 605, has very similar features and it's much much thinner and a lot sleeker looking.

I think Archos is going to miss a big profit margin. They should have released the 605 much sooner to the north american market.
Fuse314
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Switzerland

ipod touch

Post by Fuse314 »

I think the iPod touch and the archos 605 are playing in dfferent leagues.

The Archos 605 has up to 160 GB harddisk whereas the iPod touch can merely hold a tenth of this - up to 16GB flash.
The biggest drawback of all the Players from Apple are the supported Codecs. This was the main reason I went for the Archos. You can drop virtually any divx/xvid encoded movie on it and play it back. With the iPods you first have to transcode every movie you want to watch..

G.
Charbax
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7055
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Location: Copenhagen
Contact:

Post by Charbax »

Archos provides 10 times more memory at the same price. 3 times better screen in terms of resolution good for browsing the Internet, 3 times better video playback resolution, video streaming and downloading from the Internet and from Samba/Upnp on your local network (don't count on Apple to make the ipod Touch a media extender competing with their Apple TV)..
yazan3k
Archos Novice
Archos Novice
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:51 am

Post by yazan3k »

I'm sorry, I was comparing the touch with the 30gb 605 model. As far as I know, the 30gb model is thinner than than the 80gb+ models.

You're right, I forgot about the codecs support.

Today I found the following article:
http://iphone.macworld.com/2007/09/ipho ... ext_ge.php

It looks like they can now install anything on the iPhone... may be in the near future they can install codec support or whatever to support a lot more formats.
nasi
Archos Novice
Archos Novice
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:03 pm

Hackability

Post by nasi »

Ironically, one of the features that compels me to the Touch more than the 605 is the fact that it is easier and more likely to be able to get third-party applications onto the Touch.

Apple like to lock you in, yes (as with their codecs) but the system is running on a version of OSX and there is an (officially unpublished) API to add applications to it.

As has been demonstrated with the iPhone there is now a wealth of good, easy to install 3rd party apps. Show me that on any recent Archos product!

I have no interest in hacking the sources and creating an alternative OS for a 605 (aka RockBox, OpenPMA, etc). With that approach you lose all the great stuff that Archos have done in their proprietary layer. All I want is an API and the ability for people to add their own apps.

It really is such a shame. If the 605 wasn't nailed down so tightly it would have massive potential for 3rd party add-ons and that would make it a killer device, IMO.

If the Touch had a HD inside I would be sold. As it is I now have to make a choice between use-ability & expandability with the iPod or capacity & incremental improvements (such as higher resolution, more codecs, etc.) on the 605. It's a tough one!
Charbax
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7055
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Location: Copenhagen
Contact:

Post by Charbax »

I don't think that the iPhone is really based on any OSX, that is just a marketing term used by Steve Jobs. I think it's just a ARM+DSP based platform, I don't think the iPhone is x86, is it?

And I don't expect to see much interesting hacked apps for it, since it's always gonna be less then a few one-digit % of the iPhone users who will hack it. And PDAs and the Nokia have open software platforms and nothing revolutionnary can come out of that. If you have got crappy hardware in there, there isn't any miracles, you can't make it decode more pixels per second then the hardware supports even somehow adding different codecs. It's like nobody ever enabled more then 320x240 at 15fps DivX to be played back on the Dreamcast, miracles aren't possible.

And it's not only the quality of the hardware of the iPhone that I think isn't impressive, it's also the software package that goes with it where you can get online services for legal distribution of content (giving a chance to the content industry to provide us with some interesting online content), legally and officially support all kinds of codecs.

If you just want to have a box that empowers hackers and pirates, sure it's cool, but I don't think it's revolutionnary, and I think we need a revolution cause hackers and pirates alone cannot improve our way to experience music, movies, text and I don't think that hackers and pirates can alone improve the society in general.
nasi
Archos Novice
Archos Novice
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:03 pm

Post by nasi »

Charbax wrote:I don't think that the iPhone is really based on any OSX, that is just a marketing term used by Steve Jobs. I think it's just a ARM+DSP based platform, I don't think the iPhone is x86, is it?
I think if the iPhone is not running OSX then it would have been pointed out by now but all the people who have delved into the system.

OSX is not limited to run on x86 alone. It has been built to be platform agnostic so it can be compiled for different hardware platforms. Since it was first created in 2000 they have had all versions running on at least PowerPC and x86, quite possibly ARM as well.

It's nothing special. Windows can run on x86, ARM and a few other platforms I forget.

But back to the topic - I am not talking about hacking it to offer more codecs or to enable a higher resolution or fps. I am talking about being able to add apps that make it a more useful device for me. This might be a simple terminal app to ssh into my servers, or a Skype app, maybe an IM client or a NES emulator for some retro gaming. I would certainly install some basic PIM applications to make it even more of a multi-purpose device.

The Nokia N800 is also great and has an even more open architecture and even more applications (commercial and otherwise) available for it. Like the iPod Touch, that would also be a serious contender for me if it weren't for the limited storage.

(most of those examples already exist as apps for the iPhone)
Charbax
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7055
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Location: Copenhagen
Contact:

Post by Charbax »

There isn't Windows XP/Vista for ARM+DSP, just as there isn't OSX for ARM+DSP. On ARM+DSP you've got Windows CE, Windows Mobile, iPod OS, iPhone OS, Linux Qtopia, Symbian, and Archos OS based on Montavista Linux.

x86 has nothing to do with the prior. I don't think any of the iPhone hacks are based on OSX software. You're not getting iPhoto, iLife, iPants or any iShit to run on the iPhone hardware. And for Skype, that is proprietary and most probably Skype isn't going to offer a release to run on a hacked ARM+DSP based iPhone. And doing a SIP app isn't easy, so good luck having a community of hackers developping that for a hacked hardware which can be locked back or even bricked by greedy Apple anytime the user synchs up to the proprietary iTunes software.
Cbud
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: Hackability

Post by Cbud »

...As has been demonstrated with the iPhone there is now a wealth of good, easy to install 3rd party apps. Show me that on any recent Archos product!...
ArchOpen... check it out.

Archos products have been hacked in the past. I'm sure with the publicity that the 605 is receiving, and also the more "tech-savvy" consumer of Archos products vs. iPod's normal, everyday user that we (hopefully) can see some hacking in the future.

I for one know that I will be developing flash applications based solely for the 605 wifi browser.
god-of-gamblers

Post by god-of-gamblers »

One of the main advantages of the Touch is that it's VERY pocketable. The browser is also very nice, and so is the UI.

But many are reporting problems with the Touch's screen, basically the viewing angle and appearance of blacks. I just got one today, and am very on the fence about it.

I already have an iPod Shuffle for music that I like, so am considering returning the Touch and getting a 605 30GB (myspace special!) to go with it. The storage space is not a big deal to me, but the 605's bigger and hopefully better screen is most appealing. As well as the price.

How is the viewing angle of the 605? I don't need extreme viewing angles, I just want to know that I can watch movies without constantly feeling like I need to tilt the screen around to get the best picture (like it currently feels with the Touch.)

It's really a shame, everything else about the Touch is very nice...thanks for any answers! I want to decide soon, to make sure I get that special price.
Digital Fury
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:52 am

Post by Digital Fury »

I'll be getting a Touch (or perhaps iPhone so I can less devices around) because it's pocketable, it syncs with iTunes playlists + address book + calendar, it has been designed to be used exclusively with fingers in mind (stylus are "has beens") and the UI actually makes sense.

I had a 604 WiFi for a long time, but always found the UI extremely awkward to use, not to mention the confusing non-intuitive layout of the buttons on the right and the menus.

Obviously the Archos' have a capacity and codec advantage, but it just doesn't cut anymore if I have to carry a brick in my pocket and have to decode all the time its byzantine UI/controls.
Charbax
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7055
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Location: Copenhagen
Contact:

Post by Charbax »

The iPod Touch might have a good browser, but the Archos 605 WiFi has a better browser in terms of screen resolution, speed, AJAX and Flash support.

A way to test it would be to have two users standing next to each other on the same WiFi network, and competing to find stuff on the Internet, post in forums, browse and find stuff on a given webpage, I guarantee you the user with the 605 WiFi will be faster then the iPod Touch user.

And UI being better for video, music, photos is a joke. Firstly the photo viewer of Archos is as nice, in fact the Archos photo function is better including screen resolution, speed and usb-host. Then music and video browsing, the only thing iPod Touch brings is this scrolling effect when you throw the list down or up with the finger. But even though that might look cool at first, you quickly get tired of it and you use the scrollbar function on the right of the list which is exactly the same on the Archos, with one sweep of the finger you can go to the bottom of any list, that's more precise, faster and more usable than throwing the list around.

As for being tied forever with iTunes, I really don't think that's an advantage, quite the contrary, it's even ridiculous that it's locked with iTunes.
Digital Fury
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:52 am

Post by Digital Fury »

No doubt the 605 WiFi must be a formidable upgrade to the 604 WiFi, but each and every person I have shown my 604 to, thought it was an unintuitive convoluted design of an UI and couldn't figure out (without looking at them) the controls on the right.

Also the expected "WTF?" comments regarding the lack of support for even the most basic support for a calendar or contact sync feature.

With the iPhone/Touch out, my money is that most potential customers will not even give the Archos' lineup a second look, and I'm not even talking about the reaction they would have if they actually knew about the hidden costs of the plug-ins for the Archos units. I mean the browsing one is kind of mandatory and self-evident even to everybody, it's just a way to artificially lower the retail price by 30Ôé¼ - that's pretty sly and slick mind you.

All-in-all I just think that Apple's current lineup shows the differences between a company having sold +100 million devices and a tiny niche player like Archos.

Apple focusing on overall experience and ease of use, like the nice integration with iTunes, the synchronization of the address book and calendar, the wide range of accessories and such. This I think is more in line with the priorities of the average customer out there, than Archos' based on specification sheets and an everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach.
Andy W
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:54 am
Location: UK

Touch Comments

Post by Andy W »

I'm in the States currently on business and managed to find an hour yesterday to go into an Apple store and play with both iPhone and iPod Touch. Here are my objective first impressions.

They both make my current 604wifi look ancient and cumbersome. Sad but true.

I thought video playback was exceptionally good, bright, smooth and detailed on both devices with perhaps the edge to the iPhone (Touch seemed to have grey, that's gray over here, blacks/less contrast). The UI on both is really nice and in many (almost all) respects better than on my 604wifi.

I was REALLY tempted to walk out of the store with an iPod Touch....YES REALLY....and I know better than most all the disadvantages of getting locked into the "Apple business model experience" so my guess is that Digital Fury is right, Archos won't even get a look in from 90% of the people in the market for a PMP. The Touch is one people will buy with their heart, not their mind.

The iPhone was impressive (for it's non-phone functions) but I particularly liked the Touch. It's so thin, superbly styled (drop dead gorgeous!!!!), lovely to handle, works beautifully and intuitively on the limited things I was able to try it on. Needless to say there was quite a crowd around the 3 units they had on demo.

I also listened to people's comments whilst they played with the Touch and it's definitely hit the sweet spot in everybody's wish lists. Pricing seems to be achieveable for most.

About the ONLY thing I did n't like with the Touch was it's very shiney screen/front surface which meant my video watching was spoilt by the reflections of all the people crowded behind me awaiting their turn to play with it! It will definitely attract stick fingerprint marks.

By contrast, I managed to find no 605wifi, or any Archos units in Best Buy and only one in Circuit City. It was a "straight", solitary 604 and was jammed on the record audio screen/totally unresponsive to any button pressing...I started to try and fix it by hard re-booting etc. then thought, hey, it's not even mine (or a Forum members) so I'll just leave it.

I'm going to try and get another look at the Touch today and try web browsing - crowd depending....I'll again resist temptation to buy...but it will be hard!!!!!

My bottom line. Archos...you had better launch Gen 6 soon BUT make sure it's stunning/loose the buttons on the side. A 606wifi upgrade of a 605wifi (like you did with the 604wifi) just won't be good enough if you want to stay in the running.

Just my thoughts as an informed consumer.
Andy W
Charbax
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7055
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Location: Copenhagen
Contact:

Post by Charbax »

Andy, have you actually seen a Gen5 yet? Cause comparing with a 10 months old 604 WiFi isn't fair.

And Circuit City should start getting the Gen5 in stores soon, at least now it shows up on their website http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?t=6951 You can check Circuit City store availabillity for the 605 WiFi 30GB here http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/howToGet ... oid=189416 probably that the other capacities will follow and be on Circuit City shelves in the next days and weeks.

And about the iPod Touch being so thin compared to the 605 WiFi, well that's because it's got much less storage, much less features and a much smaller lower resolution screen. 605 WiFi is said to be more pocketable now, so I'd say once it's pocketable, I'd rather have a little fatter larger device as long as that is required to bring all those better features, in that nobody else packs as many features in such a pocketable box.

Sure enough Apple's design is small and that's draws consumers and that's fine. But it's not like Apple packed the same features in a 3 times smaller package. They are packing a third of the features in there, so it's not disrupting the 605 WiFi, instead the Archos 605 WiFi is for people who want more features for less money and don't care about a 30gr difference jump to 150gr for the Archos 605 WiFi from 120gr for the iPod Touch.
Digital Fury
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:52 am

Post by Digital Fury »

Charbax, No I haven't seen a 605 "in person" yet. Indeed the bigger screen and the Flash support do address several of my issues with the 604, but the UI, the buttons, the size and the plug-in business model are the same ÔÇô which is still a downer for me.

The actual price points of the Touch/iPhone should be OK for most if not all potential customers, and 8 or 16 Gb are more than enough for a lot of people.

In reality since the geek-only early MP3 days (former Rio 300 owner here! \:D/ ), this market has matured. People dont buy these on capacity or feature galore anymore, but more on emotional aspects like looks, weight, ease of use, market traction, and peripheral stuff like accessories and the iTunes store => ease of use and no hassle.

I hope for ArchosÔÇÖ sake theyÔÇÖre going to bust a move real soon because the Gen 5 design just doesnÔÇÖt cut and I recon the Touch is going to be devastating to them ÔÇô if it isnÔÇÖt already with say the iPhone.
ETM
Archos Guru
Archos Guru
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 8:09 pm
Location: Podgorica, Montenegro

Post by ETM »

I can't believe how people seem to overlook the size of the Touch - it's less than 8mm thick! It's thinner than my frakkin' Motorola F3... that alone will turn people, more than any spec 605 can throw at them...
404 owner
Charbax
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7055
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Location: Copenhagen
Contact:

Post by Charbax »

Some people only care about looks, others care about what's inside.

iPod Touch is not going to be devastating to Archos, quite the contrary.

The more people will be drawn by iPod Touch's looks, the more people will want to see which alternative provides more value for their money.

Apple is making PMPs fashionable, and Archos provides the best value in that segment.
laughingboy
Archos User
Archos User
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:47 pm

Post by laughingboy »

charbax- face it. if the touch came with even 30GB of capacity the 605 would be dead in the water. you would need a REALLY special product to compete with that and as much as i like the archos, it doesnt had that much of a lead in terms of functionality for day to day use. (and this is from someone who has bought a 605 160 already)

im gonna give it a go and see how it compares. i want to see them both im my hands before i decide which im gonna keep.

luckily im off to the usa next month so can get a touch £70 cheaper than in the uk (i baulk at the idea of £270 for a 16GB player, but £200 seems about right)
Charbax
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7055
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Location: Copenhagen
Contact:

Post by Charbax »

Firstly the iPod Touch doesn't come with hard drives. Second, it would probably cost much more then the $239 you can get the Archos 605 WiFi 30GB through MySpace. Third, Archos still would have many more features.

If iPod Touch provided open competition among VOD and video streaming sites that can be accessed, if iPod Touch worked with a remote as a media streamer on the TV (thus cannibalising Apple TV), if iPod Touch recorded video, was unlocked with plugins to support different codecs at least at DVD resolution, Flash video streaming support, DOZENS of other features, then it would be disrupting Archos reason to exist on the market.

The fact is Apple isn't disrupting Archos with the iPod Touch, they are meerly opening up the PMP market to a larger audience which will in fact benefit Archos no matter how many sales the iPod Touch performs.
Post Reply

Return to “Off-topic”