Archos financial position

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alsutton

Archos financial position

Post by alsutton »

As I understand their financials for the end of Q3 2009 it says that the net debt. is 10.6 million euros as of 30th September 09, up from 10.3 million euros (which was the level at 30th June 2009). Turnover is down 24%, with US turnover down 45.1%, turnover in Asia down 49.4%, and turnover in the EU down 15.9%.

Do people think that Archos could be in financial trouble?
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by my02vr6 »

Karma :roll:
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goldenhopper
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by goldenhopper »

It would only take the sale of 100 000 units at $100 profit per unit to wipe out that debt. Sounds like a feat that is obtainable given the quality product Archos is known for. Imagine what kind of sales would be possible if they ever decided to roll out a marketting strategy in North America. Come to think of it where can I invest in this company?
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by Archos5Fan »

An "investment" would be the purchase of a new player! It's a beginning. :D
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by my02vr6 »

goldenhopper wrote:Come to think of it where can I invest in this company?
Give them customer service classes :badgrin:
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by goldenhopper »

Apple sold 7.4 million units in q3. So yes where do I invest in this company?

Let's say Archos sells this many units in an entire year at $100 profit per unit. That would be 740 million profit. Customer service will improve as will the bugs over time.
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by Charbax »

They are only on the Paris stock exchange..

The sales of Archos 5 Internet Tablets, Archos 3 Vision, Archos 2 Vision and Archos 9 pctablet are not included in that latest financials thing that compares Archos last quarter of Archos 5/7 IMT and other sales performance against the last quarter Q3 2008 of 605 WiFi sales right before the economy went down..

Yes I think the opportunity lies not only in Archos pulling this off to sell many more units all by themselves, I think the opportunity maybe especially lies in if a very big investor comes in and sees the Archos 5 Internet Tablet and Archos 9 pctablet and really believes in it and finances the Archos factories in China to product large amounts of it to sell in the next few months. For example:

- Let's consider the national inventory manager of some big resellers like Best Buy or Blockbuster comes to Archos and says "We want you to make 1 million units just for us this Christmas, here is $150 million to finance the manufacturing of our 1 million units", at that point, Archos can make a special price for that big reseller who thus can get huge deliveries of the product. Since I think the factories in China can scale to pretty much any scale Archos is able to pay for.

Increases in amount of sales, can finance that Archos perhaps hire 12 or 20 more Android developers putting out quick hiring ads up overall of Europe, those new software engineers could help in fixing all the bugs, speeding up the performance, adding and integrating more Android features..

By financing the extra manufacture of 1 million units, any of Best Buy, Blockbuster, Walmart, Aldi, Media Markt, Saturn, any of those or a combination of those would then get each device at a special low price from Archos, for example $150 per unit for the 16GB version. And thus be able to sell the 16GB for $199 in retail stores before or around the Christmas time. Or sell the 8GB for $149, or the 500GB for $299.

Imagine all those units runing a perfect Android 2.0 upgrade, that's super smooth, 10mbit/s MKV 720p high profile bitrate support, Flash 10.1 ready, USB 3G dongle support, a nice foldable Bluetooth keyboard add-on that snaps to the sides to cover the screen instead of a leather case, the start of full 3D games emulation to turn it into a real portable and HDTV compatible console. I mean, I think they do got the chance to achieve all that.
alsutton

Re: Archos financial position

Post by alsutton »

On thing that sticks in my mind is that Q3 2008 people were expecting the original A5, so, yes this Q3 they were expecting the A5 Android, but last Q3 they were also expecting a brand new wondrous product so, to me, it's very much a like-for like situation.

If you fast forward 6 months after Q3 2008 to the end of Q1 2009, when the A5 had launched and become established, you'll still see revenues dropping with the Q1 2009 financial report (as I understand it) stating sales were 47.9% lower in Q1 2009 than they were in Q1 2008. Given the A5A firmware instability and situation with Amazon, YouTubes switch to Flash 10 (rending old A5s' unable to view it), in my opinion there isn't a lot thats' happened that's improved Archoses reputation, and even more people seem to have been turned off them as a brand.

If you go forward to their next product, the Phone tablet, there are already competitors being prepared for launch, with the first one (the Acer Liquid), rumoured to be hitting the streets at the end of next month, and the Motorola Droid rumoured to be hitting shop floors soon after, both with the full Google experience including Android Market, which means, given Archoses previous september release dates, they are going to get nearly a one year head start on the 'phone tablet, and offer a WVGA Android Google Experience, which will, in many peoples opinions, offer them a better Android experience than the A5 can offer (maybe not a better multimedia experience, but a better all-rounds, apps and Google services experience).

So far the best case scenarios seem to involve situations which differ greatly from the norm;
$100 profit per unit for 100 000 units
To make $100 clear profit on this type of device is unheard off outside devices with an apple on them. There are staffing, administration, and development overheads to take into account as well as manufacturing costs. Then there is dealing with Returns (which, if the Android 5 forum & reports about Amazon are anything to go by these are higher than the norm for consumer electronics) and each of these Archos makes no money and has to spend out in shipping, returns, replacement, and all the administration that goes with it.
Let's consider the national inventory manager of some big resellers like Best Buy or Blockbuster comes to Archos and says "We want you to make 1 million units just for us this Christmas, here is $150 million to finance the manufacturing of our 1 million units"
That just doesn't happen. Companies get orders in, they can then go to the bank and get a loan against the value of that order (which would put Archos further into debt), and then repay those loans once the money comes in. If the returns are high and the money from the order is lower than expected it's possible that Archos would end up losing money on the deal because the interest on the loan exceeds the profit from the sale.

One of the reasons resellers like BestBuy and Amazon get good prices is because they can say to people like Archos "if you don't give us a good price and deal on returns then we just won't list you", they have no interest in getting financially invested in their suppliers because that would mean that they wouldn't be able to drop unprofitable lines and would end up stuck with whatever Archos (or any other supplier) came out with until the money was repaid.
magine all those units runing a perfect Android 2.0 upgrade, that's super smooth, 10mbit/s MKV 720p high profile bitrate support, Flash 10.1 ready, USB 3G dongle support, a nice foldable Bluetooth keyboard add-on that snaps to the sides to cover the screen instead of a leather case, the start of full 3D games emulation to turn it into a real portable and HDTV compatible console. I mean, I think they do got the chance to achieve all that.
I can imagine that, but to me that's all thats' likely to happen, imagining it. I've been on a trip in the last couple of days and took my old A5 just to re-familarise myself with it, and it was awful. One movie I encoded in XVid mod16 with AC3 audio would lock the whole unit up every 10 minutes or so, and others wouldn't start. Looking back a previous products it appears it's a common pattern, the firmware just falls short of working well.

To me, at least, I can't see anything likely to change Archoeses fortunes around.
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by Charbax »

alsutton wrote:the Phone tablet, there are already competitors being prepared for launch, with the first one (the Acer Liquid), rumoured to be hitting the streets at the end of next month, and the Motorola Droid rumoured to be hitting shop floors soon after, both with the full Google experience including Android Market, which means, given Archoses previous september release dates, they are going to get nearly a one year head start on the 'phone tablet, and offer a WVGA Android Google Experience, which will, in many peoples opinions, offer them a better Android experience than the A5 can offer (maybe not a better multimedia experience, but a better all-rounds, apps and Google services experience).
Blah blah blah.

By the time the Droid and Acer Liquid come out, Archos may very well have the 1.6 firmware out with full Google Experience included.

Plus, Archos provides a much better 4.8" and 4.3" WVGA experience, better processor, better codecs support, better storage options, much better pricing and value proposition.

The ipod touch is selling faster than the iphone at this moment. This means that there is a perfectly reasonable market for the 3G-less Archos 5 Internet Tablet and other sizes of that perhaps 7", 4.3" and others that Archos may release with relatively little investment in R&D since the internals are basically the same it's just a different sized screen and battery to integrate.

Archos is so far beyond anything Apple, Microsoft and any of the other Android manufacturers are doing, any true geek understands that. And with a slightly more stable firmware, a couple Android UI upgrades to 1.6 then 2.0, with Flash 10.1 support, higher MKV 720p bitrate support for most 4GB+ movie scene releases, the market for Archos Android can be really huge. Especially when they come down in price in the next couple of months with larger amounts of sales going through to more resellers getting the 8GB version out below $200 and the 500GB version below $400.
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by goldenhopper »

If I could buy some Archos stock on a North American stock exchange I would do it yesterday. This company should be listed on the NASDAQ ASAP and the proceeds used to kick start some world wide advertising. Archos is showing a lot of initiative working on the bugs and this shows a willingness to be customer friendly going forward.
alsutton

Re: Archos financial position

Post by alsutton »

blah blah blah.

From what I've read it the A5A is lacking in the areas of;

Stability.
3G built-in connectivity (and problems with smart 'phone tethering).
Lacking hardware needed for Google Experience.

I'm not saying it doesn't hold some promise, it's Archoses ability to deliver given what happened with the old A5 that is in question.
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by Charbax »

It does not lack in hardware, on the contrary, Google looks much better on Archos then on any other Android devices.

Google does not want to feed the carriers more than needed, WiFi only Android tablets are very welcome, especially since the 8GB model starts at $249 and sold at all retailers instead of exclusively through carriers. Consumers don't enjoy paying $1599 for the average Android phone over the length of the contract, and Google does not want to support that.
alsutton

Re: Archos financial position

Post by alsutton »

Charbax wrote:It does not lack in hardware, on the contrary, Google looks much better on Archos then on any other Android devices.
So where is the camera, hardware home/back/menu keys, and inbuilt cellular modem? (All of which dell have squeezed into their MID).
Charbax wrote:Google does not want to feed the carriers more than needed, WiFi only Android tablets are very welcome, especially since the 8GB model starts at $249 and sold at all retailers instead of exclusively through carriers. Consumers don't enjoy paying $1599 for the average Android phone over the length of the contract, and Google does not want to support that.
I'll happily admit people have different needs and will like different devices, but a $249 A5 doesn't give users a phone or camera, so it's not really and apples-to-apples comparison, and you can get an unlocked HTC Hero for around $650.
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by Charbax »

alsutton wrote:I'll happily admit people have different needs and will like different devices, but a $249 A5 doesn't give users a phone or camera, so it's not really and apples-to-apples comparison, and you can get an unlocked HTC Hero for around $650.
$650 for an unlocked HTC Hero is freaking ridiculous! How can you seriously defend that type of pricing!! It costs HTC less than $150 to manufacture it!

Ipod touch has no camera, no 3G built-in, not even Bluetooth tethering for 3G access. Yet more than 20 million people have bought the ipod touch. Archos 5IT is about the same price as the Ipod touch per capacity (with 10x more storage in Hard drive versions also available) and provides 100x more hardware features compared to the ipod touch.

Your opinions that there is no market for this product, is just cause you are a long time Archos basher and your company is even in conflicts with Archos and trying to sue them over not using your AndAppsStore instead of making their own apps library.
alsutton

Re: Archos financial position

Post by alsutton »

Can we stick to facts.
Charbax wrote:Archos 5IT is about the same price as the Ipod touch per capacity (with 10x more storage in Hard drive versions also available) and provides 100x more hardware features compared to the ipod touch.
Th iPod has 32 & 64 GB versions, the A5 HDD are 160GB & 500GB, so thats 5x and 8x, not 10x.

Does the A5IT have 100 features let alone 100x the features of an iPod? If the iPod only had 5 features the A5IT would need 500, are you really trying to convince me yours are the words of a someone involved in a rational debate?
Charbax wrote:Your opinions that there is no market for this product, is just cause you are a long time Archos basher and your company is even in conflicts with Archos and trying to sue them over not using your AndAppsStore instead of making their own apps library.
I have never said there is no market for the product. All I have said is I have concerns based on what happened with the previous Archos 5, the comments in the various forums on here, and Archoses financial reports.

Long term Archos basher?, I've been on this forum less than 2 months, and have only had any involvement with anything Archos related for about 3, how is that long term?

I've already covered the reasons for my companies actions, and you seem to have ignored them an favour of making things up. To me, if you need to make things up to back your position up then you've already lost the argument.
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by generic_username »

Until this devolved into Ad hominem and madness i found this quite an interesting thread/debate.

Is there any indication if the archos phone will have the standard camera home etc keys so it might work with the Gstore?
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by Charbax »

generic_username wrote:Is there any indication if the archos phone will have the standard camera home etc keys so it might work with the Gstore?
Google has not said that camera keys etc are requirements for Gstore in Android 1.6 and 2.0.

For 1.5 those were requirements just basically because 1.5 was a version only for 3 HTC phones and 1 Samsung phone. Those are all built in the same way.

But no where is Google saying that Android 1.6 and 2.0 are built to keep the same hardware requirements, that is actually bollocks.

Android is exploding with 1.6 and 2.0 with 20 new manufacturers all building different hardware. So obviously 1.6 and 2.0 are built to allow different types of hardware configurations.
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Re: Archos financial position

Post by polarrich »

If 'Ifs' and 'Ands' were pots and pans...............
This is blah blah blah from the both of you!
Archos make good PRODUCTS per se............. (crap firmware though)
Surely you both must realise that Archos will release the BARE MINIMUM that they can get away with to show a 'new product', then promise the moon on a stick so you will buy it, and then casually shaft you good and proper 9 months down the line.
All the things you are saying 'may' come with, 'might' come with..... yada yada yada are all things on a WISH LIST guys.
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