Massive problems with the ARCLibrary (fixed in 1.5.52)

jens_vogel · Post by **jens_vogel** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:55 pm

Hi!

Since two days I'm the owner of an Archos 504 80GB. I absolutely love the device except for the fact that the feature I consider to be the most important one for me - the mp3 playback or more specifically the audio library function - seems to be nearly unusable.

I've got ~10.200 mp3 files, all properly tagged and named. My older Creative Zen Xtra carries exactly the same files I now copied to my Archos and the library of the Creative player cathegorized them all correctly. However, in the Archos library lots of Artists and Albums are missing, although they are properly stored on the harddisk.

I tried the "repair" feature in the system configuration several times, but after a rebuild of the library those artists are still missing. Strange enough, when I play back those missing files on the Archos using the file browser, the contents of the ID3-tags are displayed correctly.

I tried to upgrade the firmware from 1.2.08 to 1.4.06, but things only got worse: Now the device crashes several times (reboots) when I try to reinitialize the library. After three failures (and reboots) I'm getting a message that the ARCLibrary has been disabled due to repeated crashes. Great.

Am I the only one out there with those problems? I can't believe that my collection is in such a bad shape, especially since I encoded most of the files myself from my massive CD collection.

Is there a limit on the amount of mp3-files the ARCLibrary can handle?

Thanks for your insights.

Bye,
Jens

viking6 · Post by **viking6** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:50 pm

I don├óÔé¼Ôäót know if this is related but my library only goes to H in the alphabetical listing of Browse hard drive. But, when I browse through the artists view or the hard drive through my computer they are all there. I├óÔé¼Ôäóve just got used to browsing through the artists folder.

I did have to restart the system a few times after it would freeze when it was scanning the new songs (6300 songs at once), but my Arclib has never been disabled.

I├óÔé¼Ôäóm thinking it├óÔé¼Ôäós nothing a firmware update can't fix due to the number of files the hard drive can recognize in a certain mode.

anthony99 · Post by **anthony99** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:23 pm

now im not that big on music these days but use my 604 for video mainly and just use the pc hard drive mode and drag and drop that way (im lazy).....are u guys using windows media player to sync your music files .....(god im clueless) im just curious b4 u ask!

jens_vogel · Post by **jens_vogel** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:40 pm

@anthony99: I'm using the PC hard drive mode.

@viking6: I don't believe it's a hard drive issue, since a FAT32 drive can store a lot of files. Besides, there is also 160GB model out there! A device like this should be able to handle 50GB of music. I very much suspect a faulty firmware which can't deal with all kinds of mp3 files and/or has problems when the number of files increases.

And while we're at it - where did the option to switch off the ARCLibrary go? In the manual there's a screenshot with an option where you can switch the ARCLibrary to on, off and auto. I believe in the "system" settings. However, the option's not there.

raid517 · Post by **raid517** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:41 pm

Yes please tell us *how* are you syncing your files? Are you using it in Windows media Device mode - or hard drive mode? Are you using some kind of software to sync your files, or are you just using drag and drop?

Of course you should be able to use all of these, but the point where it can fall down a bit is by using third party software to do your syncing - as Archos can't predict what will become of this kind of interaction.

jens_vogel · Post by **jens_vogel** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:53 pm

@raid517: To further elaborate: I just drag & drop the files in windows. After disconnecting my Arcos (by properly using the tray icon in windows, of course!) it automatically starts updating the library when I pull the USB plug. It does that every time I disconnect it. So I don't see why there should be a reason for the library to get out of sync.

anthony99 · Post by **anthony99** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:57 pm

try using windows media player to sync your music files! im sure you will have better results!!! ...............i havent used that feature yet so i cant really comment but i think its the way to go for your music and it will prob convert the files that are causing you the problems...................have you formatted since you got your device at all !!!

raid517 · Post by **raid517** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:04 pm

Well look, no he shouldn't have to do that. I use Linux. My unit hasn't arrived yet. I don't want to think that I'm going to have to use Windows Media Player just to put music on my 504.

If he can't use drag and drop then it's bug - and it should be fixed. If that is the case, I would recommend contacting Archos and explaining the issues you are having with them. They seem to be quite good with releasing firmware ATM - and I guess little glitches like this are to be expected. But don't give up on your 504 just yet - and if you do contact Archos, please let us know what they say.

anthony99 · Post by **anthony99** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:13 pm

raid517 wrote:Well look, no he shouldn't have to do that. I use Linux. My unit hasn't arrived yet. I don't want to think that I'm going to have to use Windows Media Player just to put music on my 504.

If he can't use drag and drop then it's bug - and it should be fixed.

yeh i agree with you....you should be able to just drag and drop! but untill theres a fix forthcoming! a workaround will have to do! ....as ever though the more people who report the fault the quicker the fix will be!(hopefully).................seems like archos has rushed the 04' line out though doesnt it! with all these little bugs that are cropping up!......seems like us early adopters are like beta testers!.......not good!

raid517 · Post by **raid517** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:16 pm

Well what about anyone else, does anyone else have issue with drag and drop?

anthony99 · Post by **anthony99** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:16 pm

linux....now theres a point! you need drag and drop dont you! archos need to pull there finger out and sort these bugs out!

jens_vogel · Post by **jens_vogel** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:54 pm

For those who want to check whether they are affected: Just go to the system properties and then to the repair tools and pick the topmost option (clear cache and rebuild library). This initiates a complete rescan of all media files without deleting the actual media files. (The other two options do that, so be careful.)

This is what /should/ happen:

1. the system files are cleared and initialized
2. the message "Scanning files..." appears (this step may take a long time, up to half an hour on my device). After some time the message window starts counting files.
3. the message "Sorting files..." appears, quickly followed by...
4. the message "Saving ARCLibrary" (or something like that).
5. The main menu appears.

All steps should be completed without the device rebooting and without the Icons of the main menu appearing inbetween! Mine went through that list properly in the beginning when I hadn't put that much data on the harddrive (and goes back to this correct behavior when I delete some data). The main menu only appears /after/ everything is finished, if all goes well.

Now, with all my music on the drive, step two is interrupted after some minutes, the main menu icons appear and step two is being continued (or restarted?). That's the "crash" I am talking about.

Using the 1.2.08 firmware just the main menu appears and the scan is continued. Steps 3 and 4 are skipped altogether. At the end the library is active but doesn't contain all the files it should.

Using the 1.4.06 firmware the whole device restarts (Archos logo, etc.) during step 2 and then the scan continues. After the third restart a message pops up saying that the ARCLibrary has been disabled due to too much restarts (as I stated in a posting above). Steps 3 and 4 are also skipped. The library is now disabled.

I noticed that using firmware 1.2.08 even the sample pictures are not being indexed properly when the crashes occur; some are missing.

raid517 · Post by **raid517** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:14 pm

Well that's completely screwed up. That's not normal at all.

Is it possible that you might have a corrupted file in there somewhere? Does it always crash at the same point? Can you delete and rebuild the ARCLibrary from scratch?

You really should telephone Archos about this. E-mailing them is not so hot, but they seem to do better if you phone them.

Where did you get your 504 from BTW?

Have you tried the reformating process?

GJ

viking6 · Post by **viking6** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:35 pm

This is the freeze I was talking about in my other post. Except I was using 1.2.05. and it did not restart. After the first failed attempt and step 2 just continuously running, I let it sit over night thinking the wait was due to the large amount of MP3├óÔé¼Ôäós I had dumped in it thought the hard drive option. The next morning I cleaned the temp files via the repair and format button and everything was finally there as per your results with 1.2.08. Albeit, some files were corrupt, and the problem with the files not showing up under the browse hard drive option was still there, but I could at least listen to music with the tags intact. I dare not even try anything else with this new firmware now that you├óÔé¼Ôäóve mentioned that your Arclib has been disabled.

I have notified Archos about this and am waiting on a reply. I highly recommend you do that same so that they can at least attempt to address this in their next update. Could you at least see the missing files under the artist folder (before your Arclib was disabled)?

EDIT: Do'h! I didn't realize that the Archos only had a limit of 999 songs in one folder. So I guess I have to split them into separate folders. Hth.

raid517 · Post by **raid517** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:48 pm

Well I will test too when (hopefully) I get my 504 on Tuesday - and if I can confirm the bug I will throw my hat in the ring too.

As I said, I need drag and drop - as there isn't an alternative for me. In any case drag and drop is what makes the Archos line so useful. I don't want to be tied to any proprietary application simply to transfer my music to my music player.

The one thing you shouldn't let Archos tell you is that they have never heard of it - and that it's really only you experiencing this problem. Hopefully if we get any more confirmations you can point them here so they know it isn't just you.

Make sure you tell them it happens after transferring a lot of files. I have an 80GB MP3 collection - and I will be transferring/upgrading this from my AV7100 to the 504.

raid517 · Post by **raid517** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:51 pm

EDIT: Do'h! I didn't realize that the Archos only had a limit of 999 songs in one folder. So I guess I have to split them into separate folders.

Really, and that's it? You think that's the source of your problem? Because if so this won't affect me at all, since all of my files are already split up into separate albums/folders...

I hope this really is all this 'bug' turns out to be.

viking6 · Post by **viking6** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:39 pm

This is the email I just recieved from Archos Support:

The unit has a limitation of 999 files being listed in any folder. You will
need to add folders to allow for more files to be seen.

Thank you,
Tim S
Archos Technical Support

HTH. BTW, talk about a fast response! I just emailed them today.

jens_vogel · Post by **jens_vogel** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:01 pm

viking6 wrote:This is the email I just recieved from Archos Support:

The unit has a limitation of 999 files being listed in any folder. You will
need to add folders to allow for more files to be seen.

Interesting to know! Why don't they put things like that down in the manual?

But just for the record: None of my folders has more than 999 files in it, as I always put each and every album into a separate folder. Besides, they said more files wouldn't be seen, I don't think that means the device should/will crash if there are more files. ;-)

I've been experimenting with the ARCLibrary for a whole day now (bye bye Sunday...) and I'm pretty convinced this thing is half baked. I just can't follow its logic, as files keep appearing and disappearing almost at random after deleting and adding some files from/to the harddrive.

jens_vogel · Post by **jens_vogel** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:10 pm

anthony99 wrote:try using windows media player to sync your music files!

I tried that of course, since after five hours of frustration I've been ready to try almost anything short of oiling the buttons. ;-)

The thing is Media Player started synchronizing, but the Archos still crashed at one point. The device immediately shut itself down, it disappeared from Windows explorer and Media Player said: "Device not found". Or something like that. Of course I suspected a Windows/Media Player problem, so I restarted the PC.

But the Archos didn't connect to the PC anymore and I had to remove the battery to reset it. Only after that could I mount the harddrive again. Actually this made sense to me, since if the ARCLibrary can't handle content on its own, it must crash if an external source tries to force the content upon it. At least that's what I'm thinking.

jens_vogel · Post by **jens_vogel** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:29 pm

raid517 wrote:Is it possible that you might have a corrupted file in there somewhere?

Very possible, I'm afraid. But the thing is: The player shouldn't crash! In my experience every tenth (or so) file from the net is corrupted, although 95% of them play absolutely fine. Just try any mp3 verifier, there are some freeware ones out there on the net. You would be surprised how many files are corrupted. The thing is: Archos can't demand that their clients do sort out some corrupted files out of a collection of 10.000+ files, that otherwise are playing fine...

Here's one freeware verifier I know of:
http://checkmate.linuxonly.nl/download.html
They do have a windows version, despite the somewhat "biased" domain name. ;-) But of course, who's to say that this program is 100% right all the time...

raid517 wrote:Does it always crash at the same point? Can you delete and rebuild the ARCLibrary from scratch?

I tried nailing down the problem by copying the files e.g. genre by genre. But it's hopeless, since the ARCLibrary seems to somehow remember and from then on skip defective files (or files it can't handle). So the next time I'd copy those files to the Archos the device wouldn't even attempt to index them and hence wouldn't crash.

raid517 wrote:You really should telephone Archos about this. E-mailing them is not so hot, but they seem to do better if you phone them.

I really should. It's a shame the online form doesn't allow more than 500 characters!

raid517 wrote:Where did you get your 504 from BTW?

Amazon.de (But hey, we're all getting them from China ;-))

raid517 wrote:Have you tried the reformating process?

Not yet, since it took such a long time to copy all the files to the Archos. But I will try it tonight - maybe. ;-) However, since the device has been shrinkwrapped and nothing went wrong during my initial file transfer, I highly doubt that the reformating will solve my problem. :-( Although I do hope so.