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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:17 pm 
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Hi all,

I just purchased an archos 504 (80GB). Mainly thanks to a friend of mine who has an av500 (100GB). I receivied mine via mail today and went to my friend's place to test it.

The joy I had when unpacking it, kinda vanished when we compared screen quality with his (old) AV500.

Two things really bugged me out:

1) there's a considerable difference in contrast and color-definition between the two. The 504 seems a bit washed out and a bit bland compared to the AV500.

2) ghosting is clearly visible on the 504 when there's movement in the video file. On the AV500 it's much less of an 'eyecatcher' than on its successor.

Maybe issue 2) has to do with the higher contrast on the av500, which could make it easier for your eyes to follow the action. Because (fast)moving videos can get pretty blurry sometimes on the 504. Maybe because nothing in the image really stands out due to the low contrast.
I tested identical videofiles on both players. An episode of Veronica Mars (350MB) and a high quality episode of Boomtown (987MB).

I also got the latest firmware. Already tried fiddling with the brightness, but that didn't do much ofcourse. I'm stuck...

These issues really bug me out. Does anyone know/recognise these problems?
Any AV500 & 504 owners who "saw it" too?
Anyone with any possible solutions?


with regards,

R[/b]


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:28 pm 
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I agree,I had a AV500 and now have a 40GB 504.
In a side by side comparison the AV500 has much blacker blacks and the image is clearer overall.
The 504 is better than it was before the firmware update and hopefully it will get better with another firmware update in the future.
Most people say the 504 is fine (which it is) but until you see the two side by side you dont realise how much better the AV500 is.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:42 pm 
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Thx smallman for the quick response.

I thought I it might be just me and my friend who saw it, but it seems more ppl have encountered it.

You didn't mention the ghosting though. Did you see that too and do you think it might have something to do with the contrast?

Does anyone know how to change the contrast on a 504/604. Or are those kind of things fixed through firmware?

I almost feel like returning my 504 and change it for a av500, but that seems kinda silly: replacing your new model with an old one...

Should I just wait it out ? Or walk it off ;)....


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:51 pm 
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rudeboi wrote:
Thx smallman for the quick response.

I thought I it might be just me and my friend who saw it, but it seems more ppl have encountered it.

You didn't mention the ghosting though. Did you see that too and do you think it might have something to do with the contrast?

Does anyone know how to change the contrast on a 504/604. Or are those kind of things fixed through firmware?

I almost feel like returning my 504 and change it for a av500, but that seems kinda silly: replacing your new model with an old one...

Should I just wait it out ? Or walk it off ;)....


I first got a 80GB 504,I noticed there was a lot of red fringing on the image during movement,I thought this was the screen itself and was as good as un-fixable,so I sold it.
Then I discovered this forum an noticed the firmware update that largely cured this but left the unit lacking contrast somewhat,findng that out made me feel a bit ill!
Now I have the 40GB version the firmware has cured the red fringing I saw before but the image itself is still lacking some contrast,the image has always been slightly blurry on fast movement with either firmware compared to the AV500
Based on my past experience I am holding fire for now and will see what improvements are made in future firmware updates.
Remember the AV500 has been around for longer so there has been time to iron out the bugs in it,give Archos a bit more time to sort out the 504 before giving up on it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:09 pm 
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I have to confess that I have just sold my 504 and got an Av500. I had the 504 for a month and was never 100% satisfied. The red fringing that was so bad at the start was cured by lowering the contrast - result no red fringing but washed out image - my uneducated guess is that the new 04 screen or colour processor or decoder or whatever is in charge of colour can't cope with high contrast and colour without red fringing and ghosting (if you fiddle with the sliders for contrast when viewing a live view in the recording window I could never get no red fringing or ghosting without a washed out image).
I may be wrong and find Archos will improve the video quality but I decided not to wait any longer as I could still get a good price on ebay for the 504 - I sold it, lost £20 and bought a used Av500. I'm really happy with the Av500 - it gives the video quality i'd hoped the 504 could've given, sharp fluid and colourful. The only advantage the 504 had was it seemed to have fewer occurences of colour banding or blocking, but this can be minimised on the Av500 by encoding at high bitrates and using the latest xvid codec.
I'm sure many will criticise me for not holding out with the 504 but I was never completely happy with it and I gave Archos a month to sort it out. The Av500 i got cost £180 for a 60gb and has made me a very happy portable video watching dude. As that's all I ever wanted from Archos I don't regret selling the 504 at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:11 pm 
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Wise words smallman allthough it won't take away my disappointment...

I guess I should keep reminding myself that this is a brand new product and that hopefully everything will be fine.

One would think though that when designing a new machine, Archos would build on the good points of the av500.
That possibillity that the 504 wouldn't have the same impressive videoquality as the av500, wasn't some something I thought of when buying my 504... The reputed great screenquality was one of the reasons I chose Archos.

Hopefully they will fix it, or add an color-hue/contrast option to the screensettings.
Because right now I'm almost inclined to say that the videoquality on the 504 is just as bad as the PSP, grrrr....


Last edited by rudeboi on Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:18 pm 
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toadsurfer wrote:
I may be wrong and find Archos will improve the video quality but I decided not to wait any longer as I could still get a good price on ebay for the 504 - I sold it, lost £20 and bought a used Av500.


Was it a 30GB AV500 you got off ebay,it might have been mine!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:26 pm 
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toadsurfer wrote:
I'm sure many will criticise me for not holding out with the 504 but I was never completely happy with it and I gave Archos a month to sort it out. The Av500 i got cost £180 for a 60gb and has made me a very happy portable video watching dude. As that's all I ever wanted from Archos I don't regret selling the 504 at all.


My thoughts exactly. Part of me wants to give this device a chance and wait for updates. The other (more economic) part of me wants to return it. If I do it with a week I can a full refund and I won't loose money on it...

I think the chance of Archos churning out a firmware-update within 6 days that fixes these problems is slim at best....

Hmmm, what to do, what to do...

The screen is a little bit bigger on the 504 than on the av500 and I can read pdf's which is great when I want to read collegenotes from my study while I'm in the train.
Other than that I can't think of any great advantages the 504 has over the av500...

does anyone know any other advantages?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:29 pm 
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I stuck with the 504 purely for the MPEG/VOB plug-in,I got fed up converting DVDs to use on the AV500.
I sold my AV500 now anyway so there is no going back for me now,I can't afford to keep chagning,I lost out big time when I sold the 80GB 504 I had breifly.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:38 pm 
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I love my Archos 504 and am sorry for anyone disappointed. I find the image crisp and sharp and contrast not lacking at all. Anyone reading this thread don't be swayed- its a great device.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:00 pm 
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roxy99 wrote:
I love my Archos 504 and am sorry for anyone disappointed. I find the image crisp and sharp and contrast not lacking at all. Anyone reading this thread don't be swayed- its a great device.



To quote Neo from the Matrix: "Whoa!"

I'm not trying to sway anyone or anything. It is a good device but if you tested it like I did, than there is an undeniable difference in videoquality. Photo-wise I'm satisfied, but video-wise I'm (rightly) disappointed. And since video was one of the reasons I bought it, I hope you can understand my feelings.

I'm sure that if you've only seen the 504 in action than the image quality is great. But put it beside a av 500 playing the same file and you'll see what I mean....

Please understand that I'm not trying to bash Archos. Wether I keep the 504 or change it for another archos model it won't change that my money and appriciation remain with the Archos company. Allthough they should fire whoever thought changing the screen contrast and videoplayback was a great idea, lol..

Is the gmini 500 a good replacement? It seems exactly the same as the av 500 series but newer... Any thoughts?


Last edited by rudeboi on Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:01 pm 
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I#m not saying many won't indeed be very happy with the 504, it is good. Just from a subjective viewpoint the video is not as good as AV500 and that was the thing I wanted in a PVR - others will rate things like the undeniably cool .vob plugin, or the slightly larger screen size or the pdf reader (which I actually found not that great as navigating a large file took forever).
If you have a week before making any decisions maybe ask your friend (if he's trusting) if you can borrow the AV500 for a night or something - have a play around with several videos for comaprison and decide whether it's worth taking the 504 back. It's hard to make decisions like this as few of us have the advantage of owning both units side by side for evaluation our purposes! You need to try both out next to each other for as long as possible to make a decision - many good and bad points of both players don't emerge for a while.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:06 pm 
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toadsurfer wrote:
I#m not saying many won't indeed be very happy with the 504, it is good. Just from a subjective viewpoint the video is not as good as AV500 and that was the thing I wanted in a PVR - others will rate things like the undeniably cool .vob plugin, or the slightly larger screen size or the pdf reader (which I actually found not that great as navigating a large file took forever).
If you have a week before making any decisions maybe ask your friend (if he's trusting) if you can borrow the AV500 for a night or something - have a play around with several videos for comaprison and decide whether it's worth taking the 504 back. It's hard to make decisions like this as few of us have the advantage of owning both units side by side for evaluation our purposes! You need to try both out next to each other for as long as possible to make a decision - many good and bad points of both players don't emerge for a while.


Thx for the tip.

But as far as videoquality is concerned, my conclusion votes in favour of the av 500...

By the way roxy99: This is not a I-hate-the-504-thread. Just some valid concerns. They were not meant to offend you or anyone else..


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:10 pm 
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Its like buying a car a loving it until you find out your friend has a better car and now are you going to hate your car?? You're spoiling your fun by comparing sideways.

I am not offended its not like I don't have more important things to worry about. Its just the negativity is starting to be a little much.

If the opposite were the case and the AV500 was the new model you'd look back and say that what you had before was better. That buyer' remorse.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:14 pm 
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roxy99 wrote:
I love my Archos 504 and am sorry for anyone disappointed. I find the image crisp and sharp and contrast not lacking at all. Anyone reading this thread don't be swayed- its a great device.


Indeed,but until the niggles are sorted the AV500 has better video quality.
On the other hand like I have said before I am pitching firmly in the 504 camp now.
On the other hand if people want a sorted player and they feel they dont need MPEG/VOB playback then they would be better off with the AV500.
Having owned both myself I am in a position to agree with the person who started this thread,surely part of the "job" of this forum is to help people make a choice?
Its no good us raving about one particular product and then someone being disappointed when they get it,give them all the facts and let them choose.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:23 pm 
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Fair enough. There needs to be some firmware updates for thos issues. Volume is a big one. I'm still not seeing the lack of contrast but maybe my eyes are bad or I assumed that it was b/c I view in bright daylight and expect a bit of washed out image.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:36 pm 
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I compared my newly purchased 604 wi-fi to my AV-500 and came to the same conclusions regarding the screen. I thought it was because of the lighter and different screen they use for the touch screen on the wi-fi. The wi-fi's screen is less sharp and the blacks are not as black compared to the AV-500. Interestingly, photos are displayed as well as on wi-fi and, in fact, colors are more accurate, with the AV-500 having a slightly green tint. Photos load much faster on the wi-fi.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:41 pm 
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roxy99 wrote:
Its like buying a car a loving it until you find out your friend has a better car and now are you going to hate your car?? You're spoiling your fun by comparing sideways.

I am not offended its not like I don't have more important things to worry about. Its just the negativity is starting to be a little much.

If the opposite were the case and the AV500 was the new model you'd look back and say that what you had before was better. That buyer' remorse.


Okay... I think you "pidgeonholed" me in the wrong hole there roxy...

This is how it went down:

I unpacked my 504. Turned it on. Synced an episode of Veronica Mars to it an played it. Immediately I noticed that the image was a bit "soft" and too neutral for my taste. Then as soon as the camera or persons displayed faster movement than normal (someone walking or a panning camera) I noticed the image became blurry...
My friend who had his av 500 nearby noticed it too. We then started the same file at the same time on both players to compare. Played another file on both players. Even took a short timeout to make sure our eyes weren't playing tricks on us.
But as bad as I wanted my 504 to be at least as good (preferably better ;)as his av500, that wasn't the case regarding the videoplayback.

Maybe my taste might be a bit too critical at times, but this is no simple case of buyers remorse and the car-metaphore you used doesn't apply to this situation at all... Positivity and enjoyment are good things but I'm not gonna pretend to be happy about something that is done better on an older device from the same company...

I didn't intentionally went out to spoil my own fun. I started comparing AFTER I noticed the aforementioned issues.

I didn't take the av 500 because the 504 a newer model. But that also means that it should be better especially on something as important as videoplayback....


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:46 pm 
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I'm extremely unhappy with the video quality of the 504...

I've also have a 60gb AV500 and video quality is much better than the 504. .The poor refresh rate (Archos call it persistance trailing) and the washed out image are a big dissapointment.
Why Archos chose not include contrast and brightness in their settings is beyond me - my cell phone has these settings for Christ sakes!

There are a couple of plus points though - no audio sync issues with vbr audio avi files.
Fantastic output quality on TV.

I'm praying Archos fix the refresh rate and washed out video in their next firmware update, in the mean time anyone that owns the 504 should contact technical support and moan about these problems.
If enough of us complain they'll hopefully fix these issues in a prompt manner.

And to the ROXY99 who said:

Quote:
I love my Archos 504 and am sorry for anyone disappointed. I find the image crisp and sharp and contrast not lacking at all. Anyone reading this thread don't be swayed- its a great device.


You've clearly never owned an AV500 and your eyesight needs checking mate.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:12 pm 
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The washed out picture is a great great shame - for me personally its the only thing that spoils this magnificant box!


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