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 Post subject: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:43 pm 
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Saw this on gizmodo http://i.gizmodo.com/5200293/archos-2-l ... yer-for-59


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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:40 pm 
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doesn't quench my thirst...


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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:54 pm 
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Looks like I'll be able to at last retire my trusty XS200.

Can't wait for it to actually be available.


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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:08 pm 
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If they can really sell it for $89, it's a great price, particularly if it has the same audio capabilities and interface as the larger units. It's much cheaper than the Cowon S9 8Gb, for example.

I'd buy one like a shot at that price if I thought it wouldn't be subject to the same stupid headphone volume limitation that affects all the other recent Archos players :/


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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Not saying that it is, but I would be fairly certain that it must comply with EU laws with units sold within the EU. One hope is that they make another version for non-EU countries.


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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:41 am 
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Yup people in non EU countries should be allowed to blow their ear-drums as much as they want.

Thing is, in non EU countries, especially in Texas in the USA, non US companies get easilly sued and have to pay millions in damages as soon as a mother sues them for blowing her teenage sons ear-drums. And non Apple companies cannot afford to pay such multi-million dollar lawsuits several times each year just to be able to sell products that destroy teenagers hearing.

So in the EU it is EU regulation, in the USA it is because of lawsuits and other territories are not significantly large enough to provide them with volume specific hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:27 am 
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Charbax wrote:
Yup people in non EU countries should be allowed to blow their ear-drums as much as they want.

Thing is, in non EU countries, especially in Texas in the USA, non US companies get easilly sued and have to pay millions in damages as soon as a mother sues them for blowing her teenage sons ear-drums. And non Apple companies cannot afford to pay such multi-million dollar lawsuits several times each year just to be able to sell products that destroy teenagers hearing.

So in the EU it is EU regulation, in the USA it is because of lawsuits and other territories are not significantly large enough to provide them with volume specific hardware.


Have you tried watching a movie on the 5? Even with pretty sensitive earphones (105dB), the volume has to be max to hear dialogue. This is not a fitting purpose. The EU law should only apply to music only players, where even with the limit you can blast the volume to pretty decent levels.

If Archos don't have the EU limit and somebody tries to sue Archos for damage for hearing loss, Archos can simply say it is you who put the volume so loud. We have to have loud volumes for movies, otherwise it is unfit for a PMP.

So what's next? Parent sue x company for damage for vision loss because he's too stupid to not constantly watch video on a tiny screen?

The point is, Archos can fight off these lawsuits by simply stating that it is their choice to do these stupid things that results in these consequences. If they limit, it would be unfit for the purpose of this machine. I can't believe there are dumb enough people to sue x company for these kinds of things when it is clearly their fault. That's like suing a car manufacturer for having their cars with speeds up to 200km/h when they got their car confiscated for speeding.

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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:14 am 
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Chengbin wrote:
Charbax wrote:
Yup people in non EU countries should be allowed to blow their ear-drums as much as they want.

Thing is, in non EU countries, especially in Texas in the USA, non US companies get easilly sued and have to pay millions in damages as soon as a mother sues them for blowing her teenage sons ear-drums. And non Apple companies cannot afford to pay such multi-million dollar lawsuits several times each year just to be able to sell products that destroy teenagers hearing.

So in the EU it is EU regulation, in the USA it is because of lawsuits and other territories are not significantly large enough to provide them with volume specific hardware.


Have you tried watching a movie on the 5? Even with pretty sensitive earphones (105dB), the volume has to be max to hear dialogue. This is not a fitting purpose. The EU law should only apply to music only players, where even with the limit you can blast the volume to pretty decent levels.

If Archos don't have the EU limit and somebody tries to sue Archos for damage for hearing loss, Archos can simply say it is you who put the volume so loud. We have to have loud volumes for movies, otherwise it is unfit for a PMP.

So what's next? Parent sue x company for damage for vision loss because he's too stupid to not constantly watch video on a tiny screen?

The point is, Archos can fight off these lawsuits by simply stating that it is their choice to do these stupid things that results in these consequences. If they limit, it would be unfit for the purpose of this machine. I can't believe there are dumb enough people to sue x company for these kinds of things when it is clearly their fault. That's like suing a car manufacturer for having their cars with speeds up to 200km/h when they got their car confiscated for speeding.


I'd say you should be a lawyer and tell Archos what to do in Texas courts.

Look it up, the fact remains that foreign companies get sued in Texas courts if their volume is too loud, among plenty other lawsuits that go through for pretty ridiculous stuff including any frivolous claim by US companies holding supposed patents on such basic things as playing back audio formats.

Archos could perhaps implement some kind of normalization of the audio output which could perhaps somehow upscale the volume for certain low volume dialog scenes and badly encoded video files and stuff like that.

Fact remains most American movies and TV shows have their audio normalized pretty high in anyways cause that bring to it more attention by those lazy TV viewers in between those hours upon hours of daily TV ads that have even louder normalized volumes.


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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:43 am 
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In the USA we have what is knows as "product liability" (tort) laws. That is, the supplier has to warn the user of possible dangers of using the equipment (at the very least). That is whey every headphone and every player (in the USA) includes warnings about hearing damage arising from misuse of the products. Even in that situation the courts have upheld that that the responsibility lies at the point where injury could be effectively eliminated for the overall public good. In this case the liability would fall on the manufacturer if someone really wants to pursue the matter.

Why are we dumping on Texas? :( Do tell.

Archos to implement some sort of normalization method would be a step in the right direction. Not everyone is tech savvy enough to self-regulate the volume of encoded music and movies. Even the software is inconsistent. Indeed some CDs from the early 1980s until the early 1990s are mastered at noticibly lower average volume levels than modern CDs with even peak values falling far short of 0db.

I'm all for not blowing out eardrums, I hear some unfortunate kids playing music at insane levels (even in the automobiles where you can hear the bass thumping from a block away). Unreal. Yet, maybe there is something that Archos can do to satisfy the health, the laws and the listener's requirements in the case of "quiet" music and movies.


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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:51 am 
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I'd say Archos should be able to auto normalize those quiet movie scenes to within their audio volume output limit. But asking them to go over doctor recommended maximum levels is pretty meaningless.

Perhaps for their own safety, Archos should implement some kind of warning popup when playing at maximum level for more than a certain amount of recommended minutes. Something like "Hey dude, are you sure you aren't destroying your ear-drums permanently listening to this heavy metal music for more than half an hour at maximum volume? [Yes, I don't care], [Ups, I didn't realize, thanks for the tip, please lower my volume now]"


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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:24 am 
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I never go to concerts without earplugs. After having my ears ring for 90 minutes following a concert in 1991, I said "never again". Normalization can be a tricky thing -- would it be per track, per album, continuous (which can really ruin the dynamics of music). I have gone back and selectively remastered some of my earliest CDs so that volume differences aren't so jarring. So, no problem for me but other users may be interested.


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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:23 pm 
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The easiest way to get that normalization is not to cap the volume, but to cap output. If you cap the output, the 5 can go as loud as it needs for movies, but once it hits a certain output, it stops outputting more, effectively limiting volume, while the volume for movies and music will be the same.

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 Post subject: Re: New Archos 2!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:37 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
I'd say Archos should be able to auto normalize those quiet movie scenes to within their audio volume output limit. But asking them to go over doctor recommended maximum levels is pretty meaningless.


For once, I agree with Charbax :) Implementing some sort of volume compression, without the ability to exceed the maximum allowed output, is not rocket science. I wouldn't like to do this to music, but for audiobooks and movie soundtracks it would make a huge difference to how useful the Archos units are in noisy environments.

Most people don't like the French legal position on volume limits (which may or may not apply to other EU jurisdictions -- that's a complex issue), but we can't blame Archos for not being willing to flout the law :/


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