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 Post subject: P2P Streaming
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:55 pm 
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Archos Novice
Archos Novice

Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:30 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Manchester,UK
Hi! I watch free football matches on: www.viewlivefooty.com. Now I know for some streams on the matches it uses 'Sopcast' which I fair well know wont work on the Archos 5. But on some of the streams it says 'If YOUTUBE WORKS ON YOUR PC THIS STREAM SHOULD WORK,' I was wondering if someone who actually owns an Archos 5 could tell me if streaming via flash on this website works on the Archos 5.
Regards
Potential Archos 5 buyer
Castledinho 8)
PS Probably will get one anyway but just out of interest thanks guys


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 Post subject: Re: P2P Streaming
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:02 pm 
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Archos Guru
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 317
Location: Nr Hull, UK
the flash9 error message appears, so it won't work.

buy it anyway though

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500/205/5/5A


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 Post subject: Re: P2P Streaming
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:22 am 
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Site Admin
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
It would be great for Archos to add support for some type of p2p streaming. Perhaps not for illegal p2p streaming, but it could be used for a legal video streaming service I think. Providing p2p streaming at 500kbit/s, 1mbit/s and 1.5mbit/s depending on the detected upload speed. Then Archos could in theory shop for permissions from the whole worlds TV channels such as CNN, BBC and such and just start offering them using that technology. Using p2p streaming would be the only way to stream the same channels to hundreds of thousands of people at the same time with no significant bandwidth cost for the service, thus be able to offer it for free.

I believe there are a few very interesting and very promising streaming p2p technologies like Sopcast, Octoshape, Livestation, Zattoo and a bunch of other streaming p2p technologies. If Archos could just find a way to support any of those, that would be great.

Perhaps Archos is waiting for the P2P-Next project to be released http://p2p-next.org/


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 Post subject: Re: P2P Streaming
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:00 pm 
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Archos Guru
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Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:59 am
Posts: 2880
Location: Toronto, Ontario
We finally see Charbax again, you haven't posted here for a while

Charbax, if P2P was controllable, ISPs would long be using it to stop people from using BT or other P2P sharewares. It is not possible for Archos to control P2P usage.

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 Post subject: Re: P2P Streaming
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
Sure it is. This is the advantage of the controlled embedded Archos system over Microsoft and Intel crapware.


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 Post subject: Re: P2P Streaming
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:18 pm 
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Archos Guru
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 2109
Chengbin wrote:
Charbax, if P2P was controllable, ISPs would long be using it to stop people from using BT or other P2P sharewares. It is not possible for Archos to control P2P usage.


It is perfectly controllable if you have a closed system, it is not so different to the original use of P2P by the BBC iPlayer to distribute files.

Closed or open though make little difference to the ISPs, it causes them problems regardless of the legality of the content.

In a lot of ways their biggest fear would be a legal P2P streaming service that became popular.


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 Post subject: Re: P2P Streaming
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:05 pm 
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Location: Copenhagen
There are p2p caching solutions which would according to the mathematics fix any bandwidth problems for ISPs, at least according to those people that have suggested to implement that type of p2p caching technology.

This way the ISP would simply have to host enough cache servers to accomodate caching of the most popular content, even with the expanded diversity of cultural interests that comes with the expanded choices of the Internet, this caching mechanism should probably be able to save as much as 80% of the ISPs external bandwidth costs as long as most content is likely to have been viewed by at least one other customer of that ISP within one certain geographical dimension of their local fiberoptic backbone.


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 Post subject: Re: P2P Streaming
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:23 pm 
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Archos Guru
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 2109
P2P caching really only contributes to a reduction in the lowest cost bandwidth, the upstream costs.

The killer for ISPs, UK ones at least, is the delivery from the ISP to the customer which in the UK is either over BT wires or requires heavy investment in LLU equipment.

Caching does nothing to help with this at all.


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 Post subject: Re: P2P Streaming
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
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Location: Copenhagen
I think Upload is the most expensive bandwidth.. especially in terms of p2p services. Since upload ratio usually is about 1:1 even higher then download bandwidth for the best of the p2p protocols. Especially for a good reliable streaming p2p protocol, you want people to upload a little bit or a lot more then they download. P2P is responsible for about 90% of global upload bandwidth while it is responsible for less then 50% of global download bandwidth, especially lately where legal free non-p2p TV episodes video streaming sites are emerging and that the Youtube bandwidth share is constantly growing.


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 Post subject: Re: P2P Streaming
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:40 pm 
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Archos Guru
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 2109
Charbax wrote:
I think Upload is the most expensive bandwidth..


Charbax, I said 'upstream', not 'upload' this may not be an area you are all that familiar with, especially in the case of UK ISPs and ADSL.

Upload bandwidth is never an issue as far as cost goes because there is a huge difference in the raw ability of an ADSL user to upload compared to download and if they ever saturate what little they have their download suffers badly.

The cost problem is very much focused on the amount of data that moves from the ISP to the customer as the cost of data moving in that direction is many many times higher than any upstream traffic from or to the ISP from the rest of the net.

This is why caching doesn't help the ISP much at all as it only saves on upstream costs.

I have worked in the ISP industry for some years now so this is stuff i am extremely familiar with.


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