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 Post subject: GPS cant find satellite
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:59 pm 
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I have gps tester, google maps and navigation and I have even tried going outside in the open and the programs cannot find my location/satellites. The little gps indicator is blinking but still can't find a satellite.
Any help is greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:32 pm 
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I have this same problem - I've given it up to 30 minutes to find a fix, but no good. Worked perfect up until 2.0.15. Also works if I downgrade to 1.9 (but I loose full screen apps). Total, total bummer - on vacation all week next week and was counting on navigation.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:49 pm 
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Wow so I'm not the only one. Anybody have any help?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:14 pm 
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There's a lot to like about the A5IT but, from my experience, GPS isn't it! Have the same problem, not only with current 2.0.15 release but previous versions as well. Even outside takes 20-30mins to find a satellite. Soon after it found one it looses it again. NEVER been able to see how the sat-nav software works as never had a lock. My trusty TomTom 520 locks on at least 5 satellites, indoors, in less than 30secs; faster if I install the latest GPSFix.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:58 pm 
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It's easy for you guys to think you all have the same problem, and are therefore sympathising with each other. My GPS has never been perfect either, but it's important not to overstate the issue(s), especially if you're thinking about problem solving, rather than having a rant.

1 - zooswanko never gets a signal at all.
2 - michael.archos had it working perfectly prior to FW 2.0.15
3 - Herby has obtained a lock in the past, but loses it quickly afterwards.

No idea where anybody lives. zooswanko is only using free utilities, not paid for SatNav app. No idea what the others are using.

If GPS is important to you, I suggest going back to 1.9.10. Also, if GPS is important to you, maybe you should be using paid for SatNav software? Maybe two of you are, you don't say. Did you all use your NDrive trial? did you give it a good try?

I would say this, and I expect michael will disagree with me, but I've had experience with these combined GPS devices in my Nokia Phones, and the experience is exactly the same.

I'm absolutely convinced that the more work the device (not the included GPS unit) has to do with regard to graphics processing, the less processing power is left for the GPS processing. Now maybe the GPS unit has some internal capacity to process the satellite data, but the results of that processing has to be passed to the main processor so that the SatNav software can do the actual mapping.

Since it is generally agreed that the GPS unit is weak as a satellite receiver, surely the less that the main processor has to do with that received data, the better the overall performance will be. To load the main processor with OpenGL, must surely be a bridge too far?

Copilot doesn't work at all with OpenGL, and maybe that's a blessing, because the graphics in Copilot are superb compared to e.g. NDrive, which still works ok with OpenGL.

From years of seeing advances in graphics in PCs, every advance has eaten up more and more processing power. This has caused lags in performance is lesser specified PCs.

I've gone back to 1.9.10 as I don't need OpenGL. But I think I'll also go back to NDrive for a while, as the whole interface is simpler than Copilot.

I agree it's not good, but it's never been good. I guess people need to decide what's more important to them, 3D Graphics, or trying to get the best out of the GPS.

And roll on support for external bluetooth GPS devices.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:18 pm 
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One correction. Open GL takes the graphics load off the CPU/graphics chip and puts it onto the DSP instead. So the CPU has less to do, not more.

Michael


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:30 pm 
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I'm where my "Location" says I am! :-) When I ran my tests I made sure that all extraneous processes were stopped. Used both GPSDiag and GPSStatus apps to test with and no other apps running. Still no reliable lock. As mentioned I have a TomTom so GPS on the A5IT not that important but be good to at least get it working.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:47 pm 
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I'm in the US (Chicago, Illinois). I tried NDrive, Google Maps/Navigation, and the GPS Diagnostic utility. None of them get a lock. I sat my iPhone down next to the Archos. It got a lock in about 30 seconds. Not sure if that helps or not. I rolled back to 1.9.10 to try to get it to work, but now I'm having trouble with it as well. Prior to upgrades (IE, the 1.7 firmwares), I would get a lock in less than a minute. Can someone recommend a firmware / GPS software combo they find to get a quick lock and be reliable?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:06 am 
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map002 wrote:
One correction. Open GL takes the graphics load off the CPU/graphics chip and puts it onto the DSP instead. So the CPU has less to do, not more.

Michael


OpenGL does take up a few MB of RAM though, correct?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:05 am 
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hauk wrote:
map002 wrote:
One correction. Open GL takes the graphics load off the CPU/graphics chip and puts it onto the DSP instead. So the CPU has less to do, not more.
OpenGL does take up a few MB of RAM though, correct?
Like, almost 20


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:36 am 
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Try disabling all other RF devices, FM, BT, Wifi

I think some Archos boards must have been defective. While I agree that locking is sometimes painfully slow, it should work at some capacity for all.

_________________
Archos 5IT


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:56 am 
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I just wish there was some solution to at least make the gps acquire a satellite a bit better and apparently there aren't many or any solutions for that matter


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:56 am 
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buster8079 wrote:
hauk wrote:
OpenGL does take up a few MB of RAM though, correct?
Like, almost 20

I think Archos staff pegged it at 12MB if I remember correctly.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:16 am 
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hauk wrote:
buster8079 wrote:
hauk wrote:
OpenGL does take up a few MB of RAM though, correct?
Like, almost 20

I think Archos staff pegged it at 12MB if I remember correctly.
Well, I monitor memory all of the time using the SysTray Monitor app... and I found OpenGL on the Archos uses much more than just 12MB, but others can replicate (using this app and the two current firmwares) and we can be more scientific... reach a consensus


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:10 am 
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map002 wrote:
One correction. Open GL takes the graphics load off the CPU/graphics chip and puts it onto the DSP instead. So the CPU has less to do, not more.

Michael

The point I was trying to make is only that the more graphics processing which has to be done, the longer it will take to get the end product on the screen, irrespective of which particular component does the processing.

As I said, Copilot has more sophisticated graphics than any other similar app I've seen. And those graphics have increased in complexity with each update. The weak GPS signal hasn't changed for me. NDrive hasn't changed much since I bought the Archos.

I agree with the first three posters here, but the poor GPS performance has been consistent since its launch, and widely reported in these forums. Having said that, the peformance has not been poor for everyone all the time. So the other point I was trying to make is that, if you actually want a solution (assuming that you are one of those few people for whom there is a solution for you), you need to be careful about whom to identify your problem with.

For michael.archos it "Worked perfect up until 2.0.15", so his solution is obvious:

"Doctor, doctor, my head hurts when hit it against the wal".
"Well, don't hit it against the wall then".

So michael.archos is one of those lucky ones. His GPS is perfect. It's only the Archos FW which is to blame.

zooswanko has a totally non working GPS unit. I would return it to the retailer, Or I would have tested it and done that while I was able to, (in case he's had it for months and is only testing it now).

I'm not altogether sure from Herby's post if he's really tested it properly. I think it needs to be tested on the road, actually moving, and with a proper SatNav application. Recently I drove off from home, having started the Copilot app, and entered my destination. I had no signal when I left, and I got fed up with looking at the Copilot map showing nothing, so I changed the display to the "Satellites" view instead. Nothing on any of the 10 columns. Suddenly, still with nothing showing on any of the 10 satellite columns, Emma's voice suddenly put in an appearance, telling me there was a turn coming up. This was about 30 to 40 minutes after I had started my journey (and had filled up with petol on the way, leaving the GPS turned on). So the GPS Satellites signal strength "meter" lied to me. I did have a signal and the signal was strong enough to get a 3D fix. The "metering" app just didn't report it properly. Sure enough, when I switched back to the map display, everything was shown, road, arrow, overhead signage, the lot.

So, for best results, I would recommend people use it with the simplest "proper" SatNav app, expect it to take much longer than other devices, start it in the car using the car kit (with car power supply), and wait until it gets a fix before moving off. Failing that, don't be surprised if it takes a while to work properly.

Oh, and lobby Archos for bluetooth support for external GPS devices. That has transformed my Nokia N97, which has exactly the same weak GPS problem.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:25 am 
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sweetypie wrote:
The point I was trying to make is only that the more graphics processing which has to be done, the longer it will take to get the end product on the screen, irrespective of which particular component does the processing.

That's a perfectly reasonable thing to think and it's also not usually true in this case.

The DSP has many, many times the processing power of the CPU when it comes to digital signals like video. So even a very complex graphics task can take less time and fewer CPU resources than a simple graphical task being handled by the CPU/Video chip alone.

And as far as RAM goes, the 2.0.15 FW uses about 20 more MB of RAM, 12 MB of which are Open GL.

Michael


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:47 am 
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map002 wrote:

The DSP has many, many times the processing power of the CPU when it comes to digital signals like video. So even a very complex graphics task can take less time and fewer CPU resources than a simple graphical task being handled by the CPU/Video chip alone.


And what about a simple graphics task being handled by the DSP? Surely must take less time than a complex task being handled by the DSP?

map002 wrote:

And as far as RAM goes, the 2.0.15 FW uses about 20 more MB of RAM, 12 MB of which are Open GL.
Michael

I'm not interested in the presence or absence of OpenGL in the FW itself, rather the use of it, and in any case, the use of complex graphics at all, in the apps associated with Satellite Navigation, Open GL or not.

The poor old Archos is struggling to run these apps satisfactorily at all, never mind with the extray payload of increasingly complex graphics. Obviously, in the extreme example, an app with no graphics at all will use less resources and therefore perform better than the same app with included graphics, never mind ever changing graphic images, not just static pictures.

So it seems to me that, where the app sits along the scale going from zero graphics to infinite graphics, running on the same processor, with the same limit on ram, will have an important effect on the user experience, or performance.

I guess the $64,000 dollar question, in this context should be: "Would a SatNav app with no display, only voice guidance, perform better or worse or no differently to the same app with full graphics display?"

Hmm... I wonder?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:55 am 
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Actually, the DSP handles the even the most complex graphics demos for Android at nearly 30 FPS. The DSP is really, really fast. So unless you're trying to use the GPS whilst playing complex 3D games at the same time (which would involve the CPU as well), I just can't see any way the use of Open GL could negatively affect any CPU intensive task in any significant way as you suggest.

Then again, I have a very tiny brain and am often wrong.

Michael


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:26 am 
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Ok, I bow to your encyclopaedic knowledge of all hardware, FW, and applications associated with the Archos, graphics, number crunching, and mapping.

I accept that this device is therefore different from other devices with similar problems, thanks to this magical DSP chip, which, as such a wonderful component, is clearly mismatched when combined with such dross as the GPS unit.

3 cheers for the DSP:

Hip hip hooray
Hip hip hooray
Hip hip hooray


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:26 pm 
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I'm just trying to do a typical bit of troubleshooting which is to eliminate possibilities thereby making the culprit easier to identify. You made a perfectly reasonable supposition and I'm letting you know I don't think that's it.

No offence intended.

Michael


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