Forum.ArchosFans.com
Archos 80 G9 1.5Ghz 1GB RAM ICS 8GB: Buy now (free shipping)
Archos 80 G9 1.5Ghz 1GB RAM ICS 250GB: Buy now (free shipping)
Archos 101 G9 1.5Ghz 1GB RAM ICS 8GB: Buy now (free shipping)
Archos 101 G9 1.5Ghz 1GB RAM ICS 250GB: Buy now (free shipping)
 * Register    * Login 

It is currently Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:04 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:01 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
Read my long post at: http://archosfans.com/2009/10/15/my-sou ... -firmware/

And comment here!

You can also add here questions that I should ask my contact at Archos and we'll see if we can get even more replies soon.

During the next few days, I will be having crazy fun installing and testing hundreds of .apk files, testing about a hundred 720p MKV movies, measure speed of streaming and transfering of stuff over WiFi-N. Do a whole lot of 3G tethering, Youtube HD, VOIP, IM and more VOIP experimentations (though very little real VOIP is available on Android yet), 720p HDMI output and reporting of the user experience. Testing of BitTorrent clients for Android. Remote desktop apps, Virtualization, remote NAS management, podcatcher, web TV streaming, Slingbox for Android and plenty more. I'll try to connect a dozen Bluetooth accessories, Bluetooth keyboards, Bluetooth mice, Bluetooth headsets, USB keyboards, USB Webcams (probably not working with anything at the moment, for Ustream, Qik and Android-videoconferencing would be nice), USB game controllers for console Emulators on Android, USB 3G Dongle (probably not working yet, but will try to learn what it really takes for when it might start working). WiFi/3G standby, see if Notifications can make it ring from the pocket, see if an Android app can auto-connect to WiFi hotspots, FON WiFi-N, auto ping for updates on 3G Bluetooth tethering. Trying to get all the Google apps working even before Google releases them officially for 800x480 and 1280x720 devices. And plenty more things that I will test and post all in HD quality videos.


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:22 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:46 pm
Posts: 1338
Location: NY
I will be very interested in how those that have their units already have faired with MKV playback with the new firmware. I haven't encountered anyone's comments about the HD format post the release of this new firmware this week; unless I missed it.


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:29 pm 
Offline
Archos User
Archos User

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:06 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Boston, Ma
Just a quick note before I head off to lunch,

Quote:
Donut - New android firmware :
- Donut (Android 1.6) should be available for the ARCHOS 5 before end of 2009. For your information, there is currently no device that is running Donut at the moment. All manufacturers are developping and adapting their devices to do so.


Android 1.6 has already been offically rolled out to T-Mobile android devices -- I'm not 100% sure if it's available for the mytouch - I'd assume it is, but I know it's available on the G1 since I have it on mine via Tmobile updates.

Edit: I have a few other comments regarding the google experience stuff, but I'll post on that later...

_________________
- Tim Strazzere


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:38 pm 
So they say;

- To play H.264 you have to register with Archos, so it's not exactly an out-of-the box feature.
- To play most MKVs you have to pay more to get the HD codec to work with AC3, so thats' not an out-of-the box feature either
- If you have almost any Smart Phone (iPhone, Windows, Blackberry, Android), you're going to need to buy another 'phone to get tethering to work.

Which isn't great. Also there are two things wrong with what Charbax has been told;

- An iPhone with OS 3.0 does support BT PAN tethering if your carrier has enabled it. So it's not a case of its' just not compatible, its' a case of if your carrier has enabled it then it should work, otherwise it won't. If its' enabled by your carrier and doesn't work with your Archos that is Archoses problem.

- You can go and buy an HTC Tattoo from Vodafone UK right now which is running Donut (it has to run Donut because it's a Google experience QVGA device). If you want to wait a couple of days you can buy one SIM-free from Play.com, and Donut was rolled out in the US a week or two ago to G1s.

Apart from that it looks like good news. I'm still willing to cough up a 30 GBP donation if the Google Apps (including Market) do turn up in the 1.6 update from Archos, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:20 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:42 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Uk
hope your contact is working on improving mkv compatibility

_________________
tiny.cc/68BQe


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:27 pm 
Offline
Archos User
Archos User

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:06 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Boston, Ma
A few things I'd like you to ask your source....

Are developers going to be provided with an SDK outside of the normal Android one? I'd like to be able to develop using and accessing some of the Archos specific things, but can't touch them with the normal SDK. If a user has purchased a codec - can't I use that in my program for something?

Since the Archos 5 IT wasn't released as an offical Google Experience device, are there plans to make it one now? You've said "My contact at Archos is telling me that Archos is in talks with Google to get those apps for when Archos releases the Donut update." So I guess I'm asking if "in talks" means. Google has agreed to make it a Google Experience device and we're working it out. Or a, we're talking with them, but no one has agreed on anything yet. Or a final answer (which due to other reports I'd be inclined to believe), google denied us originally and we're trying to get it now.

As for you getting your own device thats awesome. Saddly whether google experience applications work on a WVGA device or not is not our problem. The applications require specific components that must be installed to the system directory on devices. As users without root access we cannot install files there, so we can't get these to work until the devices are rooted. So "out of the box" support for these will not work regardless, unless a firmware update is provided by archos to enable us to have root (doubtful) or they install the apps themselves (possible).

Disclaimer: I'm not a troll as seem to think. I'd like these applications to work, I just don't see it as a 100% possibility.

_________________
- Tim Strazzere


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:34 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:42 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Uk
Also, can you ask if this device will continue to be supported this time next year or if it will be ignored like everything else?

_________________
tiny.cc/68BQe


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:07 pm 
Offline
Archos User
Archos User

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:32 am
Posts: 145
Good one. I think we all know the REAL answer to this, though. It will be supported, as long as someone is able to hack the kernel.

perrin21 wrote:
Also, can you ask if this device will continue to be supported this time next year or if it will be ignored like everything else?


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:11 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:13 pm
Posts: 934
Thank you for your information, charbax. It┬┤s very helpful to understand the FW-releases.


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:01 pm 
Offline
Archos Novice
Archos Novice

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:52 am
Posts: 8
You go Charbax!

Shine the light and curse the doubt. The intelligence level of this forum is at times outweighed only by the sheer negativity of those who want it all now. This is a new venture - let it get its sea legs. I guess it speaks to how passionate people are about this device and its potential as an open source platform.

That being said, count on Nokia and Maemo to have a competitor out soon.


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:30 pm 
Offline
Archos Novice
Archos Novice

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:29 am
Posts: 13
Location: Canada
kramer28 wrote:
I will be very interested in how those that have their units already have faired with MKV playback with the new firmware. I haven't encountered anyone's comments about the HD format post the release of this new firmware this week; unless I missed it.


I installed the new firmware the first day it was released and can no longer play the 1280x720 Anime MKVs(H264/AAC & 1700-2000kbps) that were playing before(although a bit choppy).

Now they just:
-display a black screen
-I can still see the info on the file and it's correct
-I can still access the GUI as well = no crash, just no video/audio!

I sent a message to Archos support and they responded that they were going to be coming out with another firmware update to resolve this problem!

FYI Lower Resolution MKVs @ 1024x576 with same specs as above played without a problem. For now I'm using TVersity to stream/convert all of my network media with great results for the Archos 5. That includes video files with H264/MPEG2/XVID/DIVX/AC3/DTS/AAC/Subtitles/etc. Of course, this only works on my home network :)


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:57 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
strazzere wrote:
Are developers going to be provided with an SDK outside of the normal Android one? I'd like to be able to develop using and accessing some of the Archos specific things, but can't touch them with the normal SDK. If a user has purchased a codec - can't I use that in my program for something?


I did ask this question to my Archos contact as well but have not yet received detailed explanation how the connection between Archos OS and Android OS could be provided to third party Android applications.

If I would try to guess right now, the Android apps do get basic audio and video support based on those codecs that come included for free with Android OS, those are probably hardware accelerated as well, maybe also with a limited resolution even though Archos OS can support much more in terms of multimedia. I saw in some video from the Google I(O that it's Ogg Vorbis, H264, mp3 and a few other codecs but at limited resolutions and bitrates.

I wonder if AppsLib.com will release more guidelines and more specific SDK tools to help third party developers hook into MKV 720p, Youtube HD style HD video streaming from the web, Flac/DivX/Mpeg2 and so many other Archos specifics. For example, someone could make a really powerful Podcatcher application that would support the downloading, streaming and progressive playback of video and audio podcasts in any formats and resolutions. Someone like Amazon could make a HD video-on-demand application, DVR related apps or other.

strazzere wrote:
Since the Archos 5 IT wasn't released as an offical Google Experience device, are there plans to make it one now? You've said "My contact at Archos is telling me that Archos is in talks with Google to get those apps for when Archos releases the Donut update." So I guess I'm asking if "in talks" means. Google has agreed to make it a Google Experience device and we're working it out. Or a, we're talking with them, but no one has agreed on anything yet. Or a final answer (which due to other reports I'd be inclined to believe), google denied us originally and we're trying to get it now.


I'm not totally sure what the exact wording is for the Google apps.

But what I understood is the same that we have been speculating on the forum, that since Android 1.6 brings WVGA, and plenty new devices are coming with WVGA perhaps even higher resolutions, all from Netbooks to new smartphones, that it makes it more likely that Google will provide their apps at those resolutions for more devices. And that should include Archos logically as well.

For sure there has been "conditions" to get those Google apps so far. One could speculate if the condition is a large amount of money. I don't think so, but I don't know for sure. I think the condition has so far been that only 3 devices from HTC and 1 device from Samsung has been released at all with Android 1.5, that all of those have the same specs, they even all run on the same ARM11 processor from Qualcomm (if I am not mistaken). They all only are 480x320 and come with the exact same hardware features apart from a slide-out keyboard on the G1.

So for sure there are "money transactions" going on between HTC, Samsung and Google. Yet those I think are most likely because Google partnered up with those manufacturers early, especially HTC, to bring out the first Android devices and invest huge amounts of engineers time to optimize Android on those first Android devices to not only help HTC but to really launch those first Android devices and show the market that the Android OS is reliable.

Now though, there are like 28 Android devices that will be on the market before Christmas, so only now I think the "Google experience" is going to be experienced on much more different types of hardwares, by many more different manufacturers. I don't think all the manufacturers releasing with 1.6 or 2.0 have had to invest all the same kind of efforts into making this work that HTC and perhaps also Samsung have had to do to be the first Androids on the market.

strazzere wrote:
So "out of the box" support for these will not work regardless, unless a firmware update is provided by archos to enable us to have root (doubtful) or they install the apps themselves (possible).


While I am looking forward to more concrete infos from Archos and perhaps from Google if we can really trust all the Google apps come with the Donut update or not, I really don't believe it is in Google's interest to block the "Google experience" on more devices. It'd be like blocking the Chrome browser on different branches and implementations of Chrome OS, it just doesn't make sense.

Although monetization of Mobile apps and ads in mobile browsers, geolocalized advertising and services, all that has not really been proven for Google yet as generating really significative revenues, since Archos supports the plugin system, then as alsutton talks about, if it comes to that, perhaps Archos should at least be allowed to sell a "Google plugin" or something for $30 or however much Google asks in licencing per device. Although that kind of makes Google look bad for asking for licencing of their apps like that.

I would gladly pay $10 per year or something for ads-free Google services on Android and everywhere else, simply tied to ones Google account, they could charge users over Google checkout.


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:51 am 
Offline
Archos Novice
Archos Novice

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:25 am
Posts: 39
Yano wrote:
I installed the new firmware the first day it was released and can no longer play the 1280x720 Anime MKVs(H264/AAC & 1700-2000kbps) that were playing before(although a bit choppy).

what settings were the anime mkv that you were able to play before this? can you post using mediainfo?


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:42 am 
Offline
Archos Novice
Archos Novice

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:29 am
Posts: 13
Location: Canada
Sure...

General
Format : Matroska
File size : 284 MiB
Duration : 23mn 59s
Overall bit rate : 1 652 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2009-09-14 01:21:36
Writing application : mkvmerge v2.9.7 ('Tenderness') built on Jul 1 2009 18:43:35
Writing library : libebml v0.7.7 + libmatroska v0.8.1
Cover : Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes / Yes

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Muxing mode : Container profile=Unknown@4.1
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 23mn 58s
Nominal bit rate : 1 488 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.067
Title : AVC Video
Writing library : x264 core 68 r1183M f21daff
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy_rd=0.6:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=0 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / rc=2pass / bitrate=1488 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=50000 / vbv_bufsize=50000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=0
Language : Japanese

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : A_AAC
Duration : 23mn 59s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Title : AAC Audio
Language : Japanese

Text #1
ID : 3
Format : ASS
Codec ID : S_TEXT/ASS
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Sub Station Alpha
Title : Styled
Language : English

Text #2
ID : 4
Format : ASS
Codec ID : S_TEXT/ASS
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Sub Station Alpha
Title : Styled - Plain Karaoke
Language : English

Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:OP
00:01:38.432 : en:Part A
00:11:39.824 : en:Part B
00:22:17.795 : en:ED
00:23:47.760 : en:Preview


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:25 am 
Charbax wrote:
Although monetization of Mobile apps and ads in mobile browsers, geolocalized advertising and services, all that has not really been proven for Google yet as generating really significative revenues, since Archos supports the plugin system, then as alsutton talks about, if it comes to that, perhaps Archos should at least be allowed to sell a "Google plugin" or something for $30 or however much Google asks in licencing per device. Although that kind of makes Google look bad for asking for licensing of their apps like that.


As I've mentioned before one of the Google engineers has said that Google Experience is about making sure developers can expect a certain level of hardware in the devices, some of which the A5 doesn't have (e.g. Camera, Hardware navigation buttons), which is why I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is on this one and donate 30 GBP to this site if I'm wrong and all the Google apps are delivered in a firmware update for the new A5.

As for the WVGA versions of the apps, they're running on the Acer Liquid which is a WVGA device, so WVGA versions of them do exist (One of the screenshots in that article shows them on the application draw of the liquid, another shows Google Maps being started up).

The HTC Tattoo is a WVGA (240x320) device which is available now from Vodafone and has the Google apps on it, so Google have already worked on addressing other resolutions (and, apparently, dealing with lower resolutions is more work for them than higher ones, which is another indicator they've already done the WVGA work).


Last edited by alsutton on Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:42 am 
Offline
Archos Novice
Archos Novice

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:25 am
Posts: 39
Yano wrote:
Sure...
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Muxing mode : Container profile=Unknown@4.1
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 23mn 58s
Nominal bit rate : 1 488 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.067
Title : AVC Video

That's impressive. Have you tried High@L5.1 with more CABAC frames?


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:02 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:59 am
Posts: 2880
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Loba wrote:
That's impressive. Have you tried High@L5.1 with more CABAC frames?


Level does NOT matter.

There is no such thing as CABAC frames. CABAC is just a method of encoding.

The number of b-frames and ref-frames don't tell you much because you don't know if the video is using that many frames. The setting just lets x264 use a maximum of x frames (you set).

_________________
Gr.9 tech lover


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:41 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:13 pm
Posts: 934
Okay. I asked the support about the missing FM wired remote functionality. I will post the result.

@charbax
I need a different answer from the support.
Can you ask your source, if there a generally support for the "old" Archos 5 FM wired remote (without FM functionality, but with the functionality for the other buttons like skip, play etc.)

The FM wired remote does not works (no LED flash / no tone) and the internal speaker is on....


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:55 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
alsutton wrote:
Charbax wrote:
Although monetization of Mobile apps and ads in mobile browsers, geolocalized advertising and services, all that has not really been proven for Google yet as generating really significative revenues, since Archos supports the plugin system, then as alsutton talks about, if it comes to that, perhaps Archos should at least be allowed to sell a "Google plugin" or something for $30 or however much Google asks in licencing per device. Although that kind of makes Google look bad for asking for licensing of their apps like that.


As I've mentioned before one of the Google engineers has said that Google Experience is about making sure developers can expect a certain level of hardware in the devices, some of which the A5 doesn't have (e.g. Camera, Hardware navigation buttons), which is why I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is on this one and donate 30 GBP to this site if I'm wrong and all the Google apps are delivered in a firmware update for the new A5.


Gmail, Talk, Voice, Listen, Contacts do not need the camera and compass, Maps, Streetview do not need the camera and should be able to work even without a compass.

Probably 90% of the apps in the Google Android Marketplace do not need a camera and compass.

Software buttons are just fine, Google cannot decide what are good Home/Back/menu buttons and what are not. That'd be like deciding what mouse and keyboard people may use to use Google Chrome on a laptop/desktop form factor. That's just not Google's job here.

I believe the Google Experience so far has just been about making sure that the Android phones on the market would work fine. Still only 3 HTC phones and 1 Samsung have really been released. But these days there are dozens of more models that are being released so the deployment of many different types of Google Experiences is being accelerated.


alsutton wrote:
As for the WVGA versions of the apps, they're running on the Acer Liquid which is a WVGA device, so WVGA versions of them do exist (One of the screenshots in that article shows them on the application draw of the liquid, another shows Google Maps being started up).


It's a good start, but as you know, the Acer A1 is not real WVGA, it's just some high pixel density 3.5" WVGA version. Basically the apps are just tweaked to display in higher pixel density, but the experience of the apps are mostly the same. The higher pixel density screen just might look slightly sharper.

When we see WVGA Google Apps on a 4.3" screen or larger, then that would be proof that Google has ported their apps for the displaying of up to 2.5x or more of more stuff on the screen at any time. For example a real WVGA Gmail client, displays 2.5x more topics, 2.5x more of the email on the screen. A real WVGA version of Google Maps displays 2.5x larger maps on the screen by default.

You'd know better, those are probably not hugely complicated tweaks, yet they require a modified app to be released.


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:38 pm 
Offline
Archos Novice
Archos Novice

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 11
Hello Charbax,

Good additional informations.
I'm particularly interested in your test of real VoIP experience with 3G tethering.
It could be a good application of the Archos5 IT for me... if only the SIM card data only could exist here in France and as such a low price than in US :?
In France, it's something like 50euros per month (non-limited with good connection for <500Mb data)...
And I don't know the conditions of using an abroad/foreigner subscription on the french territory.


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Hosted by Forumatic™