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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:36 pm 
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It seems the EU is regulating that all Smartphones should have a micro-USB connector directly on the device as a standard for charging.

Hopefully, like with the Archos 705, the PMA400 and some previous models, that Archos will re-instate the built-in standard micro-USB connector on the side of the device, even though they also probably still need the proprietary connector as well for all those high bandwidth high power things like HDMI tv-out (micro-HDMI built-in would be super fun for that), tv-input, USB host connection, accessories like DVB-T and DVB-SH tuners, DVR Station, Battery Docks and all those things.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
It seems the EU is regulating that all Smartphones should have a micro-USB connector directly on the device as a standard for charging.

Hopefully, like with the Archos 705, the PMA400 and some previous models, that Archos will re-instate the built-in standard micro-USB connector on the side of the device, even though they also probably still need the proprietary connector as well for all those high bandwidth high power things like HDMI tv-out (micro-HDMI built-in would be super fun for that), tv-input, USB host connection, accessories like DVB-T and DVB-SH tuners, DVR Station, Battery Docks and all those things.


They could and should put all of those bar audio/video in/out on mini USB. And, as you suggest, no reason not to use a mini HDMI connector for the former stuff.

Give us standard connectors, no reason at all for any more proprietory connections.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:56 pm 
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You can't have a dozen mini input/output connectors on the side of the device, that would increase the complexity, the price, the failure rate, the size and the weight of the device. You could eventually add a micro-usb for usb slave and for standard charging. The micro-usb though probably cannot charge as fast as with a much higher power and higher bandwith proprietary connector.

I would also think it be cool if it also got a new mini-HDMI output connector directly onto the side of the device. But there might be different standards for it. For example should the mini-HDMI connection also be able to power and charge the device? 3 different charging inputs on the device seriously starts to complicate things.

The mini-jack output could add composite video output using an Archos mini-jack to composite video-out cable. Though then perhaps you need a software switch to turn that analogic tv output off and on and to limit the risks of interference on the regular audio output quality.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:43 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
You can't have a dozen mini input/output connectors on the side of the device,


Wouldn't need to. A single mini HDMI would do the lot for the audio and video I/O
A full mini USB would do for connecting to any tuners, synching and charging. If you want a fast charge option then a standard barrel connector would do the job, no need for proprietary connectors - but a standard USB would allow up to 1000mA which is plenty fast enough for such a device.

Quote:
I would also think it be cool if it also got a new mini-HDMI output connector directly onto the side of the device. But there might be different standards for it. For example should the mini-HDMI connection also be able to power and charge the device? 3 different charging inputs on the device seriously starts to complicate things.


Nope, no issues, no power. If it's a mini HDMI connector then you already have you standard.

Quote:
The mini-jack output could add composite video output using an Archos mini-jack to composite video-out cable.

Yep, no problem with that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Magic Man wrote:
A single mini HDMI would do the lot for the audio and video I/O


I don't think that a single mini HDMI can do both inupt and output video. Even less both analog and digital HDMI, Component, S-video and Composite output and inputs.

Firstly, getting HDMI requires HDCP certification, a complicated process, it needs to support copy protection technologies on the HD output. HD digital recording is basically illegal unless you can support the HDCP recording certification.

Magic Man wrote:
A full mini USB would do for connecting to any tuners, synching and charging.


I'm pretty sure that you cannot do USB slave (to connect to a computer) and USB host on the same connector. I have never seen that before. Also, doing USB host would be best with a full sized USB host connector, to not carry a normal to mini USB converter cable for when connecting USB accessories or cameras.

Magic Man wrote:
If you want a fast charge option then a standard barrel connector would do the job, no need for proprietary connectors


DC connectors are poorly standardized, there are dozens of different types.

Image

So Archos may just as well put the full charger behind a proprietary connector, the same connector that does all high bandwidth (up to 3gbit/s) and high power connectors.

Since having a mini-HDMI cable is a special thing, might as well have a standard HDMI output connector on a new type of HD mini Dock.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:58 pm 
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I don't think that a single mini HDMI can do both inupt and output video.


I think it is called HDMI 2.0

Quote:
DC connectors are poorly standardized, there are dozens of different types.


They make very cheap adapters for these. Here in the US they are like $10 for 20 different adapters for these.


Quote:
So Archos may just as well put the full charger behind a proprietary connector, the same connector that does all high bandwidth (up to 3gbit/s) and high power connectors.


Which connector does 3gb/s? I know USB2.0 doesn't, USB 3.0 maybe.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:07 pm 
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jl97delsol wrote:
Quote:
I don't think that a single mini HDMI can do both inupt and output video.


I think it is called HDMI 2.0


There is NO such thing as HDMI 2.0. The latest version is HDMI 1.4. There have been no commercial products released yet under this HDMI 1.4 standard, that will bring 4Kx2K resolution support. The latest commercially available HDMI standard is HDMI 1.3.

jl97delsol wrote:
Quote:
DC connectors are poorly standardized, there are dozens of different types.


They make very cheap adapters for these. Here in the US they are like $10 for 20 different adapters for these.


Yeah, and thousands of people burn their devices by plugging the wrong chargers to them with the wrong voltage, amp and polarity.

jl97delsol wrote:
Quote:
So Archos may just as well put the full charger behind a proprietary connector, the same connector that does all high bandwidth (up to 3gbit/s) and high power connectors.


Which connector does 3gb/s? I know USB2.0 doesn't, USB 3.0 maybe.


Archos connector has always been more powerful than USB and much faster in terms of its potential for bitrates.

The Archos proprietary connector is basically like USB 3.0.

So when USB 3.0 is released, Archos can just release a new mini Dock to support it.

What it means is that you could transfer a 700MB movie in less than 15 seconds.

Cause although USB3 is supposed to have a theoretical speed of 3gbit/s, it'll probably perform at around 0.5gbit/s for a start in actual transfer speeds.

HDMI in itself requires up to several Gbit/s in bandwidth, to output that HD digital quality image. I don't know exactly how much Archos is outputting at 720p HDMI, but I am guessing that it might be upwards 1gbit/s. So it has to go through a proprietary Archos high bandwidth connector or through a mini HDMI output.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:17 pm 
Quote:
There is NO such thing as HDMI 2.0. The latest version is HDMI 1.4. There have been no commercial products released yet under this HDMI 1.4 standard, that will bring 4Kx2K resolution support. The latest commercially available HDMI standard is HDMI 1.3.


Thats why I said "I think it called". Please read before posting.

Quote:
Yeah, and thousands of people burn their devices by plugging the wrong chargers to them with the wrong voltage, amp and polarity.


These adapter are for the tips only. Not the whole charger.

Quote:
Archos connector has always been more powerful than USB and much faster in terms of its potential for bitrates.

The Archos proprietary connector is basically like USB 3.0.

So when USB 3.0 is released, Archos can just release a new mini Dock to support it.

What it means is that you could transfer a 700MB movie in less than 15 seconds.

Cause although USB3 is supposed to have a theoretical speed of 3gbit/s, it'll probably perform at around 0.5gbit/s for a start in actual transfer speeds.


Very doubtful, do you have proof? USB2.0 is limited to the motherboard chips and software on the chip, max speed for usb2.0 (ideal conditions) 480Mbps, not the connector. If you have proof then maybe I will believe you.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:33 pm 
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The special Archos cable is NOT usb 3.0. It is 2.0 and more importantly for Archos, a way to force people to buy their attachments.

I think the requirment is mini USB (like what is on 90% of phones now). Micro USB is really small and not as common.

As far as the design, I notice what appears to be a mini usb port, but what is the real function? I thing the USB port may be for input devices and not data or for charging. They already have both covered with their sucky wucky special cable.

Who knows, maybe Archos gained some common sense and appreciate people expect a standard method for both charging and transferring data?.... Nah, I doubt it ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:25 am 
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rushmore wrote:
The special Archos cable is NOT usb 3.0. It is 2.0 and more importantly for Archos, a way to force people to buy their attachments.

I think the requirment is mini USB (like what is on 90% of phones now). Micro USB is really small and not as common.

As far as the design, I notice what appears to be a mini usb port, but what is the real function? I thing the USB port may be for input devices and not data or for charging. They already have both covered with their sucky wucky special cable.

Who knows, maybe Archos gained some common sense and appreciate people expect a standard method for both charging and transferring data?.... Nah, I doubt it ;)


Bandwidth of Archos port is much faster than USB2. Obviously, HDMI data goes through that, and that is most certainly more than 1gbit/s.

I am sure the micro-USB port is for charging. I don't think it's for USB host functions, a Dock would still be needed for that.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:44 am 
It's possibly a combination of the two.

Android can use USB for on-device application debugging & file transfer, so the Archos may use Androids USB stuff over the mini-usb connector (as per many other Android devices) and use the Archos port for it's own peripherals which have additional requirements (such as high bandwidth devices).

Given Archoses very closed history though I wouldn't be surprised if they disabled USB debugging because you can use a program called adb in the Android SDK to start a linux shell on the device & to pull almost any file onto your PC using it, so leaving it enabled would be a big change in attitude for Archos.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:06 pm 
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[quote="alsutton"]It's possibly a combination of the two.

Android can use USB for on-device application debugging & file transfer, so the Archos may use Androids USB stuff over the mini-usb connector (as per many other Android devices) and use the Archos port for it's own peripherals which have additional requirements (such as high bandwidth devices).

Given Archoses very closed history though I wouldn't be surprised if they disabled USB debugging because you can use a program called adb in the Android SDK to start a linux shell on the device & to pull almost any file onto your PC using it, so leaving it enabled would be a big change in attitude for Archos.[/quote]

It would be HUGE if the USB can be used for data and charging. The special cable quite frankly sux raw eggs.

I guess any day now we will see a leak of the complete specs. What is the chance the audio level is improved on these devices?


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