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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:14 pm 
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will it have the same problems as the archos 5
e.g. crashing and restarting
a number of defected devices
paint easily scratching off
???


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:36 pm 
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crashing and restarting - maybe less if developed properly, depends how much of the OS Archos tries to lock down. If its open enough, bugs can be fan-fixed.

defected devices -> YES -> this is caused by Archos not spending enough money on quality control.

paint easily scratching off -> MAYBE -> presumably Archos will be using a different type of paint and will learn from their lesson, but they might make a different mistake such as a loose headphone jack or flimsy stand

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:02 pm 
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Idire wrote:
defected devices -> YES -> this is caused by Archos not spending enough money on quality control.


I don't think Archos has any worse yield than any other consumer electronics company. If Archos might have a slightly higher percentage of defective units it is also cause Archos devices have about a thousand more features than for example an ipod touch.

Your choice, do you want a device with less features, then the product user manual will be thinner, there will be less potential bugs, less potential defects but also less fun. Your choice.

Also, build quality probably improves with larger production volumes. When you produce millions of a device, you can make some very tiny hardware revisions along the way once you discover reasons for certain problems, to optimize all the circuit boards along the way and thus optimize the yields. While if you only are producing a few hundred thousand to max a million per year like Archos is, then you probably have to stick with some of the early production boards and you can only optimize it with the next coming generations.

Given the circumstances, I am quite sure that Archos is doing much better ratio of quality control per features and quality control per number of units shipped compared to any of Apple, Sony or Microsoft.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:39 pm 
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I own an Archos 5 and an Apple iPhone 3G and each have their good and bad points. (Never had a problem with my iPhone though)

I'm not going to start that here, but I can say despite its common manufacturing defects Archos 5 is so much better for video than the iPhone:

-> Bigger Screen
-> No need to sync video just copy and paste
-> Greater format support.

I'd say iPhone is better for music than the Archos 5 because of the user interface and reliability, but its a matter of PERSONAL OPINION.

Everyone has a different view.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:32 am 
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Charbax wrote:
Idire wrote:
defected devices -> YES -> this is caused by Archos not spending enough money on quality control.


I don't think Archos has any worse yield than any other consumer electronics company. If Archos might have a slightly higher percentage of defective units it is also cause Archos devices have about a thousand more features than for example an ipod touch.

Your choice, do you want a device with less features, then the product user manual will be thinner, there will be less potential bugs, less potential defects but also less fun. Your choice.

Also, build quality probably improves with larger production volumes. When you produce millions of a device, you can make some very tiny hardware revisions along the way once you discover reasons for certain problems, to optimize all the circuit boards along the way and thus optimize the yields. While if you only are producing a few hundred thousand to max a million per year like Archos is, then you probably have to stick with some of the early production boards and you can only optimize it with the next coming generations.

Given the circumstances, I am quite sure that Archos is doing much better ratio of quality control per features and quality control per number of units shipped compared to any of Apple, Sony or Microsoft.


Are you actually serious when you say this? Have you EVER seen any other products that needs multiple exchanges? There has been countless people who exchanged the 5 more than 3 times and gave up because of the ridiculous quality control.

I think Archos does have quality control, but it ONLY checks if it can turn on. If it can, doesn't matter how bad this device is, it goes through. Archos really has to be tougher on quality control. They might save a little now by allowing those defective ones through, but the damage to their reputation, returned units, and customer lose costs them much more.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:35 am 
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Hard to say what might be since we don't have accurate numbers.

For example: How many Archos 5 have sold? How many Archos 5 have been returned? If we had the numbers then we would really have something to say. Are we seeing a very vocal 100 people out of 10,000 sold? Or are we seeing 500 angry people out of 1,000 sold?

Hard to say....


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:17 am 
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I think that many people are returning their Archos cause they are newbies and don't know they could fix the problem themselves by just checking this forum. A more advanced product with many more features means more newbies don't really understand how to use it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:34 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
I think that many people are returning their Archos cause they are newbies and don't know they could fix the problem themselves by just checking this forum. A more advanced product with many more features means more newbies don't really understand how to use it.


I can't believe you call yourself a moderator if you say that. I believe the job of a moderator is to read all the posts. There has been countless posts where people exchanged the 5 multiple times for various reasons like scratches, stuck/dead pixels, headphone jack, FAT32 error, doesn't work, etc.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:39 pm 
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Chengbin wrote:
Charbax wrote:
I think that many people are returning their Archos cause they are newbies and don't know they could fix the problem themselves by just checking this forum. A more advanced product with many more features means more newbies don't really understand how to use it.


I can't believe you call yourself a moderator if you say that. I believe the job of a moderator is to read all the posts. There has been countless posts where people exchanged the 5 multiple times for various reasons like scratches, stuck/dead pixels, headphone jack, FAT32 error, doesn't work, etc.


Oh I can guarantee you that there are many newbies on the forum who return their products by their own mistakes, and not searching the forum correctly to find their solutions. It can be such as stupid things as a user not knowing how to update the firmware to the latest firmware. Or the user not knowing there is a Hard Disk recovery menu and ways to recover bad hard disk errors using a computer. I have seen that happening dozens of times, and I am not reading all the posts. It's not my job to help everyone here.

Sure it could be that Archos should make it even more automatic for the device to automatically update the firmware and perhaps Archos should make it easier to scandisk, error fix, format, clean temporary files and such tools which many newbies don't really know how to use.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Charbax, with all due respect, you are an Archos apologist of the highest order... Why should users have to perform multiple scandisks / reformats / etc etc so often to try to get their IMT to work properly?

Ask yourself what causes these issues. My main PC and server are on 24/7, 365 days a year and the current hardware has been running for nearly 2 years. Not once have I had to reformat my discs, run scandisk etc. I have 7 discs in my server and 2 in my PC. Why is this, do you think?

Or, to be slightly more relevant, I have a Creative Labs Zen Vision:M 30GB... I used that for about 2 years, until I decided to buy an A5. Not once did I get corrupted files or have to reformat the disc.

Having said all that, I have been lucky and have not had a problem of this kind with my A5. ARCLib and playback issues, on the other hand, are driving me crazy, as you may be aware from my other posts!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:21 pm 
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judgechuck wrote:
Why should users have to perform multiple scandisks / reformats / etc etc so often to try to get their IMT to work properly?


I don't need to, you don't need to. Some users do. Unless they might enjoy spending anywhere between 2 and 4 weeks without and Archos waiting for the Archos engineers to do exactly the same thing that the initial newbie could have done for himself by just searching the forum for 5 minutes.

Sure some users really do get problems that need a real hardware repair. But surely also there are many people that send their units in for repair when they didn't have to. There are many examples of that in this forum.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Charbax, you miss my point... Why should doing a scandisk be required for so many people? I agree, if you have to do it, better do it yourself than send it to Archos!

My point stands; something is not right with Archos' QA...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:05 pm 
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judgechuck wrote:
Why should doing a scandisk be required for so many people?


You don't know how many people arrive in such situations that they should scandisk, error fix, clean temporary files or even format to have a better working device.

Archos makes since 2002 the worlds most advanced portable hard drive players. If Apple or Sony provided all the same features, they would have exactly the same potential problems.

You decide, if you want all the metadata analytics done by a PC software like itunes and if you want less storage and less multimedia features, then buy an ipod touch or another product with such fewer features, at the same price. Don't buy a 250GB pocket hard drive 4.8" autonomous plug-and-play HDMI video-recording device with Flash support full codecs support and expect to not have any potential problems with it based on all the unique features that you get.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:40 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
If Apple or Sony provided all the same features, they would have exactly the same potential problems.


You wanna bet?

Look at the iPod Touch. It has 1/3 of the 5's processing power, and it manages to have 2/3 of the 5's speed in page loading. Not only that, scrolling is much much smoother. Safari doesn't crash as often as Opera. Many superb interface features, such as the smart zoom (simply a brilliantly implemented feature) , .com button, multiple level of zoom (not to mention how easy it is to zoom), makes the experience much nicer.

I don't want to admit it, but Apple has done so much on Safari, that I actually prefer to use the Touch for web browsing than the 5, even though the screen is 1/3 of the 5's resolution and much smaller. The simply brilliantly implemented smart zoom makes the text as readable as the 5, sometimes even better. (when you zoom in Opera on the 5, the text doesn't sharpen, making it look horrible). I can live without Flash, since most of it is advertisement anyway.

After saying all of this, what does it actually mean? It means that Apple has done a serious amount of optimization. While the 5, with its 3x faster processor, still lags like crazy when scrolling.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:58 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
judgechuck wrote:
Why should doing a scandisk be required for so many people?


You don't know how many people arrive in such situations that they should scandisk, error fix, clean temporary files or even format to have a better working device.

Archos makes since 2002 the worlds most advanced portable hard drive players. If Apple or Sony provided all the same features, they would have exactly the same potential problems.

You decide, if you want all the metadata analytics done by a PC software like itunes and if you want less storage and less multimedia features, then buy an ipod touch or another product with such fewer features, at the same price. Don't buy a 250GB pocket hard drive 4.8" autonomous plug-and-play HDMI video-recording device with Flash support full codecs support and expect to not have any potential problems with it based on all the unique features that you get.



Irrelevant if they don't work properly! [email protected] rest of your comments though - how much do archos pay you for your spin?!?! :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:14 pm 
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Chengbin wrote:
Look at the iPod Touch. It has 1/3 of the 5's processing power, and it manages to have 2/3 of the 5's speed in page loading.


Completely wrong. Page loading is 5 times slower on the ipod touch. How would you notice anyways, you are too busy being impressed by all of its scrolling gimmicks and blurry smart zoomings.

Chengbin wrote:
Safari doesn't crash as often as Opera.


That's easy enough cause it doesn't even try loading any AJAX or Flash on web pages.

I'm tired of the same debate over and over. If you want less value, then take less and deal with less potential issues in a smaller user manual.

Chengbin wrote:
It means that Apple has done a serious amount of optimization.


Apple set the bar much lower, so surely it has been easier for them to optimize.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:26 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
Chengbin wrote:
Look at the iPod Touch. It has 1/3 of the 5's processing power, and it manages to have 2/3 of the 5's speed in page loading.


Completely wrong. Page loading is 5 times slower on the ipod touch. How would you notice anyways, you are too busy being impressed by all of its scrolling gimmicks and blurry smart zoomings.


Have you compared them? I did. My 5 loads the page, and 2-3 seconds later the Touch loads them too.

Also, it is the 5 that has the blurry zooming. The Touch sharpens after zooming.

Do you even know what smart zooming is? If you want to read a post on a forum, you can double tap the text on the post and it automatically fills the screen with text. If you want to look at the info and stats of a person beside the post, double tap that area, and that part fills the screen.

I'm tired of you putting down the Touch. The Touch is horrible at some parts, like video playback and storage. But the Touch's browsing experience is unmatched.

The iPod Touch is a marvel of software engineering (except media playback). Just look at the firmware size, over 250MB. 5 times bigger than the 5's.

Chengbin wrote:
It means that Apple has done a serious amount of optimization.


Charbax wrote:
Apple set the bar much lower, so surely it has been easier for them to optimize.


That makes absolutely no sense. Apple set the bar high, that's why they optimized Safari like crazy. If they set the bar low, they would just have the same laggy browser like the 5, even laggier because of the slower hardware.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:36 pm 
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I don't believe that it can be possible that you really believe in the things that you keep writing, so I am not going to continue this useless debate.

Go back down to ipod touch level without AJAX, without Flash, loading nyt.com and other graphics intensive pages 5x slower. And you just continue calling that setting the bar high if that makes you happy. I've had a Motorola A920 since 2003 that has just about exactly the same performance levels of the iphone in terms of video playback resolutions, browsing resolutions, touch-screen size and form factor, it even has video-conferencing on UMTS which the iphone does not have.

Image

So really, in terms of setting a bar, Apple did absolutely not reach very high. Sure Apple might have optimized the interfaces better than that Symbian crap which Motorola was using back in 2003, but other than a few aesthetic changes and perhaps a slightly smaller bezel and a capacitative touchscreen, the iphone has absolutely nothing going for it.

In 2004, 3 years before the release of the iphone, Motorola improved the form factor to this:

Image

Again, in terms of features it's exactly like an iphone other than a few aesthetic aspects of the interfaces of iphone OS versus symbian crap.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:13 am 
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Charbax, if you can, would you rather have the 5's OS or the Touch's OS in the 5?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:09 am 
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charbax. are you working for archos?


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