Forum.ArchosFans.com

Unofficial Archos Support Forum
It is currently Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:21 pm

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:45 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
Flash support is totally relying on Adobe's Flash Lite Sdks. And for now Adobe does not provide suppot for ActionScript 3 on ARM devices. They will when they release the Flash 10 SDK.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:27 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:45 pm
Posts: 529
What is Microsoft DRM anyway? As in what uses it? And why would you buy music limited by DRM when you can buy music that isn't?


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:04 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
Just about every legal video and movie download site out there uses Windows Media DRM. Most legal music sites including all music subscription sites use Windows Media DRM.

Complain to Obama if you don't like it.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:18 pm 
Offline
Archos Novice
Archos Novice

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:01 pm
Posts: 14
DRM (Digital Rights Management) refers to techologies that are designed to control what can and can't be done with digital content. In other words, stuff to stop you downloading your favorite film/tune/game then burning copies for all your mates.
Microsoft DRM is a specific implementation of this.

Quote:
why would you buy music limited by DRM when you can buy music that isn't?


The answer in most cases is you wouldn't. It is something that is generally used for the benefit of the copyright owner (eg record label, film studio) rather than the consumer.

Quote:
Most legal music sites including all music subscription sites use Windows Media DRM.


Not any more I don't think. Personally I have been using emusic for over a year and the tunes have always been DRM-free - Its why I took out a subscription with them rather than anyone else. Since there a now a number of DRM-free music stores online (eg emusic, amazon) some of the others that have traditionally used DRM (iTunes) are moving away from it, which personally I think is a good thing.

Don't know what the current state of video is tho - seems to be quite hard to find a decent place to buy movies online in the uk, let alone a subscription type set up. Any one else in the UK know any?


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:35 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
Name one legal music subscription service that doesn't use windows media DRM and name one video-on-demand site where you can buy movies without windows media DRM.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:00 pm 
Offline
Archos Novice
Archos Novice

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:01 pm
Posts: 14
I have a subscription to emusic that lets me download up to 40-odd mp3s a month. These are DRM free.
As for those sites where you can access a whole catalog so long as you keep paying the subscription then I don't know. I wanna buy my tunes so that they are mine to keep, not rent them until such time as the company changes its rules / goes bust / whatever. Like strikeback says

Quote:
why would you buy music limited by DRM when you can buy music that isn't?


Video I don't know - as I said, I haven't had much luck in finding any video service that will work in the UK, DRM'd or otherwise.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:16 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
I'd like to download all the Mp3 and DivX or Mkv movies I can using BitTorrent without DRM for $5 per month paid over taxes, but for that to happen legally, you'll have to ask Obama to do some executive order on this issue or to get that congress to vote some new copyright law.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:43 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:19 am
Posts: 1745
Charbax wrote:
Name one legal music subscription service that doesn't use windows media DRM and name one video-on-demand site where you can buy movies without windows media DRM.


I can't comment on video, but there are plenty of legal music sources that don't use DRM of any kind. I buy most of my music from eclassical.com, and they've never used DRM. eMusic (mostly popular music from independent record labels) doesn't use DRM, and never has (but eMusic is too expensive these days so I don't do business with them). Amazon has started selling MP3s without DRM.

The sticking point has always been the big record labels -- until recently they've never supplied anything without DRM guarantees. But some of the big names have changed, and I wouldn't be surprised if others do also.

Whether DRM benefits the consumer or not is up for grabs. It can certainly be argued that it keeps costs down. Some suppliers have started selling the same music with and without DRM -- without is more expensive, of course. I guess we'll see what people prefer.

Personally, I won't touch anything with any kind of DRM. Life is already complicated enough without all that hassle. But I worked for a long time on DRM software distribution systems for mobile phone companies, so I'm familiar with the various arguments in favour.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:46 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:28 pm
Posts: 957
kb wrote:
Charbax wrote:
Name one legal music subscription service that doesn't use windows media DRM and name one video-on-demand site where you can buy movies without windows media DRM.


I can't comment on video, but there are plenty of legal music sources that don't use DRM of any kind. I buy most of my music from eclassical.com, and they've never used DRM. eMusic (mostly popular music from independent record labels) doesn't use DRM, and never has (but eMusic is too expensive these days so I don't do business with them). Amazon has started selling MP3s without DRM.


You missed the most important word in the Charbax' question... subscription, as in subscription music services, where you pay a flat monthly rate for all the music you can download. Essentially, you are "renting" songs. As far as I know, they all use microsoft DRM, and require a "Playsforsure" compatible device.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:57 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
I much prefer paying $5 per month for unlimited music downloads then paying $1 per song to own.

Who cares about owning the songs. I just listen to them one time and move on to the next album.

If http://last.fm implemented an unlimited music to download subscription at $5 per month using BitTorrent in the form of Mp3 files without DRM, that would be perfect. But until then, if you want legal music, Windows Media DRM protected music subscription sites are the best.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:41 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:26 pm
Posts: 1915
I have a huge library of CDs. It's all DRM-free. :D


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:05 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:19 am
Posts: 1745
kawiultraman wrote:
You missed the most important word in the Charbax' question... subscription, as in subscription music services, where you pay a flat monthly rate for all the music you can download. Essentially, you are "renting" songs. As far as I know, they all use microsoft DRM, and require a "Playsforsure" compatible device.


Fair enough. If you obtain must in a time-limited, or play-limited way, then of course it requires some sort of DRM. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Personally, if I like music I will listen to it over and over again. So I'd have no interest in subscription stuff.

But to request that kind of service and then complain about DRM sounds to me a bit like asking for rain and then complaining it's wet :/


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:42 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:28 pm
Posts: 957
kb wrote:
Personally, if I like music I will listen to it over and over again. So I'd have no interest in subscription stuff.


Same here. I think the subscription stuff is for people with short attention spans. :D


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:53 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
kawiultraman wrote:
kb wrote:
Personally, if I like music I will listen to it over and over again. So I'd have no interest in subscription stuff.


Same here. I think the subscription stuff is for people with short attention spans. :D


On the contrary, subscriptions are for people that know there is a huge diversity of music to listen to out there. No time to listen to the same stuff again and again.

Also, if your subscription plan is $5 for unlimited music, you don't need a very high IQ to figure out that that equates to buying about 5 songs on regular $1 per song pay to download to own sites. If your subscription is $15 per month, then that equates to buying 1 album per month to have unlimited access to all the music ever made. I think it's pretty obvious which plan makes more sense. Unless you don't consider yourself to having the budget to be interested in financing the worlds music artists at a rate that equals to be buying 1 or 1/3rd of an album every month.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:05 am 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:26 pm
Posts: 1915
People are slowly but surely being subscribed into bankruptcy. Insurance is a kind os subscription, Cable TV, phones, music, movies, everywhere you turn and look subscribe for this and that. People are being fleeced a dollar at a time.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:43 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
I think most people would gladly pay 100% tax if that meant they could do everything they wanted.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:05 am 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:19 am
Posts: 1745
Charbax wrote:
On the contrary, subscriptions are for people that know there is a huge diversity of music to listen to out there. No time to listen to the same stuff again and again.


Fair enough. Chacun à son goût, and all that.

Charbax wrote:
Also, if your subscription plan is $5 for unlimited music, you don't need a very high IQ to figure out that that equates to buying about 5 songs on regular $1 per song pay to download to own sites.


You don't need a very high IQ to work out that there is a stream of high-quality, diverse, non-repeating music available lawfully at no cost -- it's called radio. Here in London I get 63 DAB radio channels (OK, so one is 24/7 birdsong, but what the heh), covering just about every conceivable genre of music.

I buy CDs and MP3s because I want to listen to something again and again. If something doesn't grab me enough to listen to it again, then I would resent paying anything for it, even $1 an month or whatever it is.

This is really a matter of taste and preference, rather than one of economics.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:49 pm 
Offline
Archos User
Archos User

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:50 pm
Posts: 144
Location: Vancouver, BC
Not to hijack the thread, but aren't we supposed to be talking about Archos 5 vs netbooks? I thought the development ideas were much more topical, dealing with development environments.

So question to kb and others with experience with these kinds of things: is the only thing in this device stopping us from putting our own OS on it is the boot loader, stored somewhere in a BIOS of sorts, that loads Archos firmware upon boot?


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:14 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:45 pm
Posts: 529
Ah, you meant subscription services. I thought you meant actual MP3 downloads. Obviously the subscriptions have to use DRM. I consider the subscription services amongst the worst business plans ever, didn't even think of that. Between services like Slackr, imeem, and youtube, I can preview just about any music I would care to listen to, and decide what I like well enough to buy. As I like trance, I am fortunate that lots of the radio shows are given away for free online.

As far as Obama and copyright go, I expect him to do like every other politician, which means choose whatever is best for his career or wallet. Being that RIAA has money to throw around, I don't expect much progress.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:19 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:19 am
Posts: 1745
Kirk wrote:
Not to hijack the thread, but aren't we supposed to be talking about Archos 5 vs netbooks? I thought the development ideas were much more topical, dealing with development environments.

So question to kb and others with experience with these kinds of things: is the only thing in this device stopping us from putting our own OS on it is the boot loader, stored somewhere in a BIOS of sorts, that loads Archos firmware upon boot?


Sort of. Without getting root access to the units (and we don't know how to do that with the later ones), the only way to get firmware into flash is by the unit's firmware update process, and the Archos won't install firmware for which is crypto signature doesn't check out. It's strong crypto and won't be broken by brute force methods, I think.

Even if you can get root access, the bootloader checks crypto signatures in flash so, even if you can write the flash, you'll most likely end up with a brick unless you can hack out the crypto checks. In the early 605s the boatloader was in a part of flash that was writeable so it was possible, in principle, to hack out the checks. I believe a number of people ended up with bricks by trying it. I didn't try it because I didn't want to gamble my own 605 :) In the later 605s, and most likely in the 5's, the bootloader itself was not writable, so you couldn't hack out the crypto signature checks even in principle.

It's all a great deal of hassle, to be honest.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited