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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:58 pm 
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The browser is probably going to be even more awesome when Opera integrates those open-source technologies fully. This would perhaps in theory, even make Archos current Widgets system even powerful enough to allow most of the features of any application you would find on the Android Marketplace or the iPhone App Store.

Question is if a Widget with correct Gears and V8 abillities would be able to use the media players, connectivity, the sound input and output (through special embedded browser plugins perhaps), video inputs and outputs (through a special embedded plugin as well), HSDPA and even GPS features (using the Dock or even using HSDPA cell tower triangulation).

Also one question could perhaps be, if Opera integrates the multi-process technology, perhaps browser based applications on embedded Linux devices could even be able to run in the background, multi-task and stuff like that.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:02 pm 
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I actually hope that Archos start using Chrome instead of Opera, because Ive been using Chrome for 2 days and already I can see its a million times better a browser than Opera!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:16 pm 
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Chrome doesn't exist for embedded devices. Though Google are now going to work on making Chrome features work on embedded devices.

But the way Chrome works, since it's open source, it means any other browser will incorporate all of its features.

So don't expect the Opera people to wait too long before they incorporate all the Chrome features and for Firefox as well.

This forces Internet Explorer to improve Javascript support, security and especially web applications support, which really, Microsoft doesn't really want to. Microsoft prefers to push their own prpoprietary Silverlight thing then to support open standards for web applications. If Microsoft doesn't integrate Chrome features in IE, then hopefully this will make it possible for all the other browsers to take larger market shares, and especially, this will give a huge boost for Linux adoption. Since people will want the Chrome browsing experiences more then they would care about the actual OS it is running on.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:15 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
Chrome doesn't exist for embedded devices. Though Google are now going to work on making Chrome features work on embedded devices.


How would they set about doing this, if Chrome doesn't exist for embedded devices? The browser we see on Archos players is limited by Opera's SDK which, as I understand it, is what Archos use to produce the browser for their devices, not Opera. Opera didn't develop the browser as we see it - they just give Archos the toolkit to work this particular version of Opera into their machines. Do you mean that Google are now going to go round every manufacturer of browsers for devices and make sure that all of their features are incorporated into their SDK's (unlikely), or that they will somehow have some of their features embedded into the software of the device, and what would those features be?

To compare Chrome to Opera for devices is really unfair. Compare Chrome to Opera 9.6 (their new one) and see which features Opera needs to incorporate to "get up to speed". For a start they would need to lose those awful mouse gestures that no-one uses. And strip out any ad-blocking that prevent advertisers from getting their all-important "give us your money" messages through to consumers.

I found a list of Google Chrome Features that we miss in other Web Browsers which makes me think that there's not really a lot which Chrome does which you can't do in other browsers, if not just as well, then even better.

Opera will probably update their SDK as and when there are sufficiently capable machines out there which can make use of more features, and they have just about as many features as you could wish for in their desktop browsers, but for now I think the browser just about does the job. I don't know if the "only 5 tabs allowed" business is due to Opera or Archos. This is my only gripe with the browser on Archos - I'm so used to opening 20 or 30 tabs in Opera on my desktop that I get a bit frustrated at the limitation on the Archos player.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Paul wrote:
I don't know if the "only 5 tabs allowed" business is due to Opera or Archos. This is my only gripe with the browser on Archos - I'm so used to opening 20 or 30 tabs in Opera on my desktop that I get a bit frustrated at the limitation on the Archos player.

Maybe you have a good idea how to present 20-30 tabs on a 5" screen... 5 on 5 rows? Wouldn't be much left of the screen :-)

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:07 pm 
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Paul wrote:
Charbax wrote:
Chrome doesn't exist for embedded devices. Though Google are now going to work on making Chrome features work on embedded devices.


How would they set about doing this, if Chrome doesn't exist for embedded devices? The browser we see on Archos players is limited by Opera's SDK which, as I understand it, is what Archos use to produce the browser for their devices, not Opera. Opera didn't develop the browser as we see it - they just give Archos the toolkit to work this particular version of Opera into their machines. Do you mean that Google are now going to go round every manufacturer of browsers for devices and make sure that all of their features are incorporated into their SDK's (unlikely), or that they will somehow have some of their features embedded into the software of the device, and what would those features be?

To compare Chrome to Opera for devices is really unfair. Compare Chrome to Opera 9.6 (their new one) and see which features Opera needs to incorporate to "get up to speed". For a start they would need to lose those awful mouse gestures that no-one uses. And strip out any ad-blocking that prevent advertisers from getting their all-important "give us your money" messages through to consumers.

I found a list of Google Chrome Features that we miss in other Web Browsers which makes me think that there's not really a lot which Chrome does which you can't do in other browsers, if not just as well, then even better.

Opera will probably update their SDK as and when there are sufficiently capable machines out there which can make use of more features, and they have just about as many features as you could wish for in their desktop browsers, but for now I think the browser just about does the job. I don't know if the "only 5 tabs allowed" business is due to Opera or Archos. This is my only gripe with the browser on Archos - I'm so used to opening 20 or 30 tabs in Opera on my desktop that I get a bit frustrated at the limitation on the Archos player.


Google has said that the Chrome features especially the V8 javascript engine would be added to the webkit based browser on Android as well. Opera is a big fan of Google and Opera is always quick at using Google technologies, so I don't see why Opera isn't going to use firstly the V8 javascript engine in all of their browsers, including the one optimized for the OLPC XO-1 laptop and the ones for embedded devices.

How do you know Opera isn't working hard with Archos to make the Opera browser work smoothly on Archos devices? Every time Archos releases a new product, Opera is quick at being proud in all types of press releases about their work in making it work. I think Opera is doing quite a bit more then just providing a basic SDK to Archos engineers, I think Opera develops their SDK based on their work with Archos and making it work on such an embedded device. Basically Opera learns as well from their experience working with Archos which they can then try to sell to other manufacturers later after a certain exclusivity time has passed.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:21 am 
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Quote:
How do you know Opera isn't working hard with Archos to make the Opera browser work smoothly on Archos devices? Every time Archos releases a new product, Opera is quick at being proud in all types of press releases about their work in making it work.


Because every time I've seen someone asking a question about Opera on Archos, over on the Opera Community forum the mods over there (I'm talking about actual Opera employees) implied that they have little or nothing to do with the development of the Opera browser which Archos provide, and that any problems people may have (either in features or usability) need to be directed to Archos. In fact, they originally had all the Archos-related posts in the wrong forum and didn't know how to categorise this version of Opera - I was the one who suggested they simply put it in their forum called "Opera for other devices" (it may have changed by now), which they did.

The responses from Opera's people were actually so poor that I had to throw a lifebuoy in there once or twice and direct some frustrated posters over to this forum.

I makes me think that Opera churn out standard marketing blurb-style press releases just to give the impression of some deep and wonderful co-operation going on in the background.

I'm sure someone at Opera is being very helpful and working with Archos, but my guess is that it's more at a support level to enable Archos to make the most of Opera's SDK, rather than working together to add new features.

That being said, Opera would probably take note of any comments which Archos might make, but they have a lot of platforms to cater for and, with their current drive towards improving their multi-platform desktop version, I'm not sure this one is top of their task list right now.

It sounds like there is some improvement in the speed of the browser on the new Archos but that, otherwise, things are pretty much the same as before (only 5 tabs etc.), although I haven't had time to read the manual yet, and I'm interested in how this mail client is implemented - whether it is akin to Opera's M2 client, or just some web-based service.

Could it be that Archos have just simply got a bit more experience and know-how behind them and have simply managed to improve their implementation of the web browser using the same SDK? Maybe there's some hardware change they've made to make the same browser work better. I don't know, I'm only wondering.

Maybe you could ask Archos about it. Ask them for more than 5 tabs if you can, and ask them if this new superfast browser is something they could put in a firmware update for the 605/705.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:57 am 
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Opera proudly displayed the Archos 5 at the recent international Broadcasting Conference in Amsterdam, the proudly display Archos on http://www.opera.com/products/devices/ there have been dozens of proud joint press releases in the past years and months.

Sure Opera can only prioritize Archos to a certain degree that makes sense from a business point of view, they are a commercial company, so they might have to focus more on the Wii and Nintendo DS browsers. Though, even those for the Wii and the Nintendo DS are only used by a small minority of Wii and Nintendo DS owners cause those browsers are not available for free. Perhaps they should provide the browser for free and monetize it using advertising or something..

Though now since it is an Internet Media Tablet, Opera is included on all devices, so now Opera sees an opportunity of selling a bunch more browser licenses to Archos users. So they can from a business point of view get to the next level in their collaboration with Archos to make the browser as smooth an experience as possible.

The new ARM Cortex A8 superscalar processor is said to be 4 times faster for web page rendering then the one used in the Archos 605 WiFi, so I don't think Archos nor Opera could just magically improve the browser speed on the old model.

Of course, adding V8 and Chrome would not be a priority right now. First Archos needs to worry about shipping large quantities of the Archos 5G and Archos 5 to as many people as possible and that all those people mostly should be very satisfied. Then would come extra unannounced upgrades such as integrating Chrome technology to speed up AJAX even more, get more Flash support working on it and adding Google Gears to make Widgets be able to store data on the device and make the Widgets and certain websites such as Gmail, Google Docs, Google Calendar work while offline and to make them even speedier by them loading more of the web applications data cached on the device itself.


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