Texas Instruments certainly supports it: http://youtube.com/watch?v=hEZ_S7eP0uc

Texas Instruments could help Archos more easily integrate their proprietary applications and even their proprietary user interfaces over to Google Android OS, while having the benefit of getting instant or near instant access to the dozens of awesome Google Android applications that are coming up.

I would guess this would be easier to do for Archos then to create its own open applications platform.

If Archos engineers say it can be done, I think Archos should try to do following:

1. Announce that they are working on providing a Google Android firmware upgrade in the next few months.

2. Release a firmware upgrade within 2-3 months that allows users to click on an icon in the Archos OS that shuts down the Archos Linux OS and reboots into Google Android. With a same icon in Google Android to come back to Archos OS if users would prefer that or if there are any bugs or missing features (for example perhaps the DVR and EPG user interface wouldn't be immediately available within Google Android).

3. At that point, Archos can evaluate things and decide if Google Android should ship by default on all of their future HSDPA products, or at least Archos could provide their carrier partners the option of choosing to use the Google Android OS by default. Supporting the Google Linux OS as well could bring significantly more trust into the Archos products from people that might not know about Archos and might be slightly hard to convince in using Archos new interface, even though it's definitely better then Archos previous interfaces, using Google Android as the core software stack of the operating system with all the third party software people will hear about for other Android device, all of those being directly compatible.

Benefits, this would instantly make the Archos 5G the best Google Android device (even though it's not a phone).

Anyways, the core value of the Google Android project is not so much to power normal phone conversation software so much, it's not like Android can change much in the way people use the phone function. The core value of Android is all the other embedded Linux applications that comes around that and how focus on those turns carriers into wireless bandwidth providers more then voice/sms service providers. Such applications as social networking applications, combined with localization features (the Archos 5G probably can have a HSDPA-antenna carrier assisted GPS functionality built-in), instant messaging, even customized audio and video player applications, I'm not talking so much about codecs as I am talking about Last.fm player type applications and social and location based audio players.

can a simple firmware update really change the entire os? also did you just pull this thought out of mid air? kind of random maybe?

Yeah they should also consider Windows Vista!


During the small time I've been part of this forum, I've seen Charbax do it all the time.

Did he mention this will never, ever catch on and never, ever happen?

The Archos OS is embedded Linux running on the same Cortex processor that Android can run on as shown in that video, Android which is also another type of embedded Linux OS. So being totally logical, in theory an Archos 5G could probably run Google Android. But then the question is would it make sense.

Another solution perhaps, could be to look at the Google Android open source code (which will be released in version 1.0 by Google in the next few weeks), and perhaps from that Archos could simply take only the functionality of running Android applications and add that as an "Android" icon on the current Archos OS.

Main thing is, we will definitely want to run Android applications on the Archos in the next few months. The question is, which would be the easiest way to achieve that:

1. Archos make their own open applications platform and release their own SDK? And let people port embedded Linux applications to it using that SDK?

2. Archos use Google Android (port all their multimedia and user interfaces to Android)?

3. Archos take just the running of applications part out of Android and add that as an icon perhaps next to the Opera Widgets icon or something. Some Android apps might not run directly on the Archos this way, they might require to be slightly ported or converted to function with the rest of Archos's features especially its media players, connectivity, browser, flash support and more.

There go our posts...

But again, Android will not be supported by Archos. They spent time and money developing the new UI for the new Archos. Why would they all of a sudden think, "Hey that Charbax guy is a genius! We should put Android on our devices!"

Charbax, seriously, do you really think Archos will use Android? Do you really think they'll use more manpower to enginner another OS? Let's see how many supporters you'll get.

The Android applications marketplace is going to get at least as good applications as are in the iPhone Apps Store, if not much better, cause the Google Android SDK is said by software developpers to be really top class and the whole Google Open Handset Alliance project is supported by many embedded Linux developpers (obviously).

Of course developers will really accelerate the development of the applications once real Google Android devices are released on the market and that they are popular. That should be starting in the next few weeks when T-Mobile launches the first Google Android based phone.

Anyways, if Archos wants to support the same kind of third party applications, there really only is a few types of embedded Linux applications, Google is introducing the Android type, then there are the Linux Mobile, Maemo, Qtopia, Angstrom Linux and some other ones. Rather then making their own new Linux embedded SDK, Archos would most probably prefer just piggybacking on an existing open embedded Linux software platform. Thus Google Android makes most sense since it is the one everyone is talking about.

Check this PDF document for a bunch of the best of the first few hundred applications that have been submitted so far based on a pre-release SDK: http://code.google.com/android/images/adc1r1_deck.pdf check TuneWiki, of course we need an integrated Last.fm player, this support would solve that.

Why don't I end this once and for all

Android on Archos 5: not a chance
Android on future Archos device: slight chance

I'm bored of this thread. I'm gonna go do some Kumon calculus crap now. Even calculus is better than this.

The question that springs to mind must surely be: what's in it for Archos? Achos could, at any time, have released an open firmware suitable for deploying other apps or operating environments. But, since the PMA400, they didn't.

Preusmably doing this just costs more in developer and support time than the revenue raised by additional sales.

I can't see why Android would make this a better value proposition for Archos than Qtopia was in the PMA days.

I mean, it would be nice, don't get me wrong -- probably the ability to run my own code is the only thing that would tempt me to buy one of the new devices (or a massive increase in sound quality) -- but I just don't see it happening.

Dont get me wrong, I would love to see Archos implement an open OS that allowed the user more freedom with what they can install and do to the device, but Archos have shown no desire to allow users any access to the OS over the past few devices, even going so far as to deliberately close up the one tiny opening they left open in the x05 OS, and they have stuck to their guns with the propriatory ports, OS etc over the past few devices, so I would consider it extremely unlikely that they are going to do an about turn and suddenly release an Archos device with Google Android, or any other open OS, on it.

To be fair to Archos, there is a difference between allowing unauthorized access to the internals of your device, and providing an alternative firmware for community purposes. Archos may be required, or think it is required, to block access to avoid users getting at DRM-protected material, for example. But providing an alternative firmware without any DRM stuff is a different matter.

I think there's also the issue of giving away too much internal detail to competitors. It's a very competitive market, and there are some unscrupulous businesses who would be very happy to know what's going on inside an Archos. Providing an alternative firmware might help with this as well, I guess. But there's still the issue of cost.

I remember that Archos issued an `official' SDK for the PMA400, but there really was nobody to support it. I guess they just didn't have enough skilled developers to do that, and didn't want to hire other people. Unless the development platform is something very well-know, like Qtopia or Android, (and therefore might be self-supporting) support costs would be astronomical.

I was working as a PC systems programmer when the first release of MS Windows came out (yes, I really am that old). At the time, Microsoft was tripping over itself to recruit and support developers for the new Windows platform. There was free, 24/7 telephone support for developers, and it was good. It's the only time I've ever called Microsoft and got to speak to anybody who had a clue.

But it must have cost an absolutely fortune. On Microsoft's part, I guess, it was a gamble that paid off. I can't see Archos making that kind of commitment (or being able to afford to).

Does anyone know if to a certain extent Archos could look into the Google Android 1.0 OS final release open source code when that is available, and somehow design an application inside of their own Archos OS that would be able to list and run a large number of Google Android applications without having to do too much porting and converting of the Android applications.

Somekind of Google Android applications running emulator of somekind or something.

This way, for third party applications support, Archos could just refer to the Google Android SDK, perhaps provide a bunch of specific Archos settings people should use within the Android SDK, so that different of the Archos specific components such as networking, screen resolution, HSDPA-based GPS, correct location for storage, way to use the multimedia player and other custom things.

Archos could perhaps even have an Android applications screening process, so new applications have to be checked by Archos officially before they can be used. So kind of like an Archos Android Applications Marketplace. Which may be different from other Android applications marketplaces. This way Archos staff checks that the application works well on the Archos screen, uses features correctly and doesn't do stuff that might not be allowed by Archos or by its carrier partners, such as perhaps VOIP, filesharing, game emulation or some other weird stuff that some people might want to make it do.

As I understand it, Android exposes a Java API (rather than a C++ API as in Qtopia) which could, in principle, readily be sandboxed inside the Java Virtual Machine. I would guess there is already provision for that in the Android JVM anyway. With such an approach, it would be unecessary to vet applications -- something that I think would be exceptionally difficult (and expensive).

The Android JVM has somewhat different properties to JVMs from Sun and other mobile vendors, and another safe alternative for Archos would be to include a more mainstream CLDC/MIDP JVM (like Java-enabled phones have).

But this is all work, that's my point.

And, in any event, I don't know if allowing the Archos units to run Java apps/midlets/whatevers would really add much to the functionality of the unit. In principle, there isn't much that can be done this way by a 3rd-party developer that can't be done in Flash or JavaScript, and I don't see any ground-breaking Flash or JavaScript for the x05s.

I think that's partly because the security restrictions (no file access, no process control, no hardware access) make it difficult to implement anything more useful that a PacMan game. Unfortunately, Java MIDP/CLDC suffers from exactly the same limitations, for exactly the same reasons.

For example this TuneWiki Android application: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5VrbNRBOlq0 It seems pretty advanced, it looks like it not only accesses any music file on the device, it pulls Youtube videos if you don't have the song on your device, it also uses the devices mediaplayer and puts some layers on top of it (such as multi-language and auto-translated lyrics) and all that. Is that software just made by some basic Java type of code? Still it seems they have pretty deep access to the functionalities of the device don't they? A Last.fm player would have the same type of features, accessing local music files on the device (for example for an eventual offline Last.fm mode including offline recommendations and scrobbling) and then also be able to pull the recommended customized webradio while online. But all of it would use the devices mediaplayer.

I'd guess you can't just do stuff like that just using javascript and html widgets, can you.

The Android Java API exposes functions for playing media and doing network operations. It also exposes functions for local file access. So I think it's entirely possible to build quite a sophisticated player GUI in Android using the Java APIs. I imagine that underneath the JVM is a whole bunch of highly-optimized native machine code (from C/C++, I guess) for doing the actual gruntwork.

A proprietary, locked device could be built on Android and still offer _some_ 3rd-party app support. But the vendor would have to compile out all the really _useful_ API features, like file access, to protect the internals. I think if this were done you'd end up with something little better than JavaScript, to be honest.

They are! It's Linux! If they just allowed users to install 3rd party applications then everyone would be happy. This is possible right now. There are literally tens of thousands of apps that could be easily ported to Archos. Maemo proves this is popular. This why the N810 is so popular.
Heck, as this post proves, even Android makes this open OS idea popular. Archos do not want to do it though. They have consistently demonstrated this. So why would they change this strategy by completely changing their whole OS infrastructure + dev kits + skills base etc etc to Google when they could do it right now for nothing?

Also, you don't want Google taking over your company strategy. That's the last thing Archos needs.

Wow, I know this is an old thread that shouldn't be bumped (really old), but it's really awesome how right Char was and how wrong others were. Good call sir.

Yeah, I shouldn't bump this, especially for a first post, but I found this forum through the thread while Googling for something else related to my Archos and couldn't resist posting. Everyone who slated Charbax should really be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves.

You're the one who should be ashamed - for drudging up a post that's more than 3-1/2 years old!