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 Post subject: An ultimatum for archos
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:13 am 
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i have grown tired of archos abandoning generation after generation of device. there is talk currently of them releasing a hacker plugin or an alternate firmware, and that is good. but if it turns out to be just talk, i will not be a happy person.

so here it is, my ultimatum. archos, since you have determined to not support your devices, open them up so that other people can. i will wait paitently until the end of september. that gives you 5 weeks. if by the end of those 5 weeks you havent done this, i will start releasing hacks on the first of every month. hacks that you dont want made public.

the first one (oct 1) was moldy cheese, a jailbreak for gen5 devices <= 1.7.13. a proof of concept rootfs was also provided, with free plugins enabled.

the second one (nov 5) will be a similar jailbreak and proof of concept for all gen6 devices.

the third (to be determined) is a permanent jailbreak for flash-locked devices. release of this will be dependant upon archos. it will either come after #2 has had a chance to propagate or after archos flash-locks gen6.

do what is right archos. reclaim some reputation and dont abandon your customers. see you in 39 days...

*edit1, updated schedule


Last edited by archilles on Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:21 am 
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Hi

I'm not sure this is the right thing to do ! Even if everyone wants opened devices, attacking there business is not a good idea...

The only thing you will risk is a trial...

By the way, instead of hacking the plugins and giving it for free... why not replacing the archos OS with something else... and start a new community on this... ? If you are able to hack even firmwares >1.7.13 ! that will be a better way for everyone... (even Archos)

Now for the guys who will attack me about my long silence.. and promising (which I never did in fact), I still really busy... and based on the few help I got (closed to 1 or 2 guys) I did not have time to complete things on my own... but I would be happy to start again working on things if there is more talented guys... who would like to work on things like maemo mer, ... (for this we need to have an EABI enabled more recent kernel (>=2.6.16 I think) on 605/705))

For Archos, you should think of making a totaly DRM free and with only one plugin for custom firmware... so that anyone can write its own plugins, own firmware with additional stuff, ... that would make things more attractive... we have now almost 2 devices series which are almost End Of Life.... :(, so this is really time to make something for the community... :),
but on our part (openPMA guys we will never go against your business...), so be sure that Archille is not affiliated with us at openPMA...

thx

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:00 am 
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archilles wrote:
the third (dec 1) is Christmas time, so i'll give the gift of freedom to archos device owners.


While the first two threats appear perfectly possible, I cannot see what this should include and how this would be done.

And I don't really see the purpose of this all. If you can do #3, why bother doing #1 and #2 before that? #3 is what you want, isn't it? And you say you can do it, so why not do it now? Why ask Archos to do it please? Why blackmail Archos into doing what you claim you could do yourself? Just release the full hack and presto (IF your claim isn't empty). This would at least reduce the number of criminal offences you are committing by 1.


Quote:
it will only get more interesting after that.


Will it?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:07 pm 
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Think about it from Archos' point of view:

If they open up the hardware, they've spent time and money to do something they don't want to do, and it's going to happen earlier than your ultimatum.

On the other hand, if they wait until Dec 1, they get to wait longer for the device to be opened up, they get to launch android devices which will get a lot of sales, and they get to test if your hack is real.

I don't think Archos is going to bite.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:56 am 
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oo, a bit more details on the X-Mas gift please?

why not just jump to #2 then to #3?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:43 am 
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i'm sorry if i gave the impression that this was a discussion. i thought the word ultimatum was good enough. i'm not interested in why this shouldn't happen or if it should happen earlier. archos makes good devices, but their business model is wrong. they should have a chance to make things right. and they probably think this is a bluff, or that i can't do what i say i can do. so #1 proves i can, #2 proves i can on 'non-hackable' units, #3 is me giving up on archos doing the right thing and doing it for them.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:36 pm 
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I will assume against my better judgment and say that I believe you. I will also go to say that I will not use the free plug-ins. I will however use the TV guide if you can unlock that. What I will be waiting for is December!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:11 pm 
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Excellent! I'll look forward to!
I will use all that will be!
I don't care about the business of this company, I was quite worried!
Long time to plug-ins in public to lay out, for such a rotten attitude to users. And problems with the law is too exaggerated ...
There are many proxy servers, anonymity ensure easy ...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:10 pm 
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I have to say that in some ways I agree with this ultimatum as I am fed up with buying tech which is not supported. I have an Archos 704 wifi which is great but due to small limitations and some new formats the thing was crippled within 6 months of purchase. Web browsing is a joke as most sites won't load, I can't stream video or music from the web, so I should have bought an IPOD or crystal ball in hand waited for the newer versions, although I have 'paid extra' for the plugins so I can watch movies whilst on the move which I was expecting it to do out of the box, (should have read the blurb more carefully). Anyway what the heck Archos don't seem interested in the product (except for selling refurbished models) and stopping them from being updated and useful. So in short I have an expensive, rather large video/music player all be it a very good one which I like a lot, but it could be so much more if it was released from its shackles. END OF RANT........


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:00 am 
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i support you. just let us know where to find #1, 2&3 when that time comes, please.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:43 pm 
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I don't believe shit, grond pointed it out perfectly

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Last edited by JankY on Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:45 pm 
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and archos should be slapped for treating their customers like this. I'm not buying anything anymore with the name archos on it

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:39 am 
I'm wondering what the downside of this ultimatum is for Archos?

If I understand it right; unless Archos does the work (and spends the money) to open their platform, archilles is going to do it for them for free?

So by doing nothing Archos are going to get the appeal of their devices increased (which will probably increase sales), will have happier customers because there is now a way for them to update their devices with an "open" firmware, and will not have to support the enhancement because it didn't come from them.

So what, exactly, have Archos got to lose from this?

Personally the only thing I can see working with Archoses firmware attitude is not to buy Archos in the future. Anything that increases the appeal of the devices is only going to increase their sales and they'll profit from the existing policy.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:22 pm 
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archilles wrote:
i have grown tired of archos abandoning generation after generation of device. there is talk currently of them releasing a hacker plugin or an alternate firmware, and that is good. but if it turns out to be just talk, i will not be a happy person.

so here it is, my ultimatum. archos, since you have determined to not support your devices, open them up so that other people can. i will wait paitently until the end of september. that gives you 5 weeks. if by the end of those 5 weeks you havent done this, i will start releasing hacks on the first of every month. hacks that you dont want made public.

the first one (oct 1) will be a hack to enable each and every plugin for free for those who still have a hackable 605 as a reward for their paitence.

the second one (nov 1) will be free plugins for everybody else

the third (dec 1) is Christmas time, so i'll give the gift of freedom to archos device owners. it will only get more interesting after that.

do what is right archos. reclaim some reputation and dont abandon your customers. see you in 39 days...


Hello,

I respect everything you say, and trust me, this excites me :), and I know you said this is an ultimatum, not a discussion, but I felt the need to say this.

Realize, archilles, that this is a very real-life threat, and a very real-life commitment. Much like the never released update to the Q-Topia/openPMA-ng images
that I (along with other forum dwellers) vented aggrivation towards, if you do not fulfill your words, you are just going to create a new wave of angry dwellers.

**[This next part NOT to be taken as an insult]**
I am not really looking out for you on this, because to me, you are just a screen-name who posted some words and concepts, but I am looking out for the forum and the admins and the mods. If this does backfire on you, and create the frustration that was created [more than] once before, it is just going to create more of a hassle for the admins and mods to oversee the talk going on and ensure that the forum rules are followed.
[/END]

Trust me, I applaud you for having the guts to put a threat like this public, and to put 'reputation' on the line by promising so much, and if you do fulfill everything you say, I will worship you.

I am not saying you can't do it, and I am not saying that you probably haven't already done it, but I am saying that if you don't do as you promise and release these, the effects can be bad.

Those are just my couple of cents and thoughts.

Best of luck in your pursuit, and I do hope to see something this coming October 1st.

Sincerely,
Cyclonezephyrxz7


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:48 pm 
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cyclonesomething: this is not a threat. it sounds like the proposite of your message is you hope that i am not faking. well i am not. but you will have to wait until october to find out for sure.

alsuton and archos: the downside to this ultimatum for archos is that their devices will be opened up completely. if they do it, they can have some control over it. i am not requiring them to open their drm stuff, which some would have us believe is the reason the device is not open. keep your drm. we want the hardware. if i do it, it will be fully and completely opened. free work maybe, but at a cost.

to those who don't believe, be prepared to eat your shit in 3 weeks. pictures welcome.

to those who support, thanks. live free.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:37 am 
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=D>

my A5 will be waiting for you!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:44 am 
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archilles wrote:
cyclonesomething: this is not a threat. it sounds like the proposite of your message is you hope that i am not faking. well i am not. but you will have to wait until october to find out for sure.

alsuton and archos: the downside to this ultimatum for archos is that their devices will be opened up completely. if they do it, they can have some control over it. i am not requiring them to open their drm stuff, which some would have us believe is the reason the device is not open. keep your drm. we want the hardware. if i do it, it will be fully and completely opened. free work maybe, but at a cost.

to those who don't believe, be prepared to eat your shit in 3 weeks. pictures welcome.

to those who support, thanks. live free.



I'm sorry if I misinterpereted your Ultimatum. However, from a Corporate standpoint, I feel that this would look like a threat, but who am i to judge or assume!

I am supporting you full way with this, and believe in a future for these devices. Thank you!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:01 am 
archilles wrote:
alsuton and archos: the downside to this ultimatum for archos is that their devices will be opened up completely. if they do it, they can have some control over it. i am not requiring them to open their drm stuff, which some would have us believe is the reason the device is not open. keep your drm. we want the hardware. if i do it, it will be fully and completely opened. free work maybe, but at a cost.


I'm still not sure what control you think they'll be able to keep and why they would want to keep it? Given they've already ditched the 5 in terms of firmware support and look to be focusing on the Android devices I don't really see what they stand to lose.

Most people who will have the skills and the willingness to deploy a hack will have either already bought the plugins or will be holding out for the Android devices. If Archos opened it up there would be an R&D cost, a support cost, and all for a platform that they've already abandoned.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see my 5 opened up so someone could do the Android port if Archos don't, but I still don't see the downside for Archos in this ultimatum.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:05 pm 
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Archos are not going to spend time creating an unlock for a device based on a post on an Internet forum. How do you know they will even see your 'ultimatum'?

They are even less likely to respond to one without any evidence. If you can hack the device, I would have thought it natural to show a video/pics of the hack, to at least show Archos that you are capable of doing it. If you don't have those, it is a fairly hollow threat, I mean, anyone could post on an internet forum saying they will do it.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see older models fully unlocked, but realistically it is not going to happen, Archos would not do it, they have nothing to gain.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:34 pm 
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This is my 1st post, I regeistered because I lurked in "open firmwares" for a long time...

Opening up ANY kind of firmware let you use your device (wahtever it is, Ipod, Archos, Tvix, PDA, consoles, etc.) at it's limits using the full hardware power (sometimes exceeding it exposing it to risks). This is not good for producers because you will have NEW functions that will make you to decide not to buy the new line-prdocution (for example, if rockbox was never born units like archos player or recorder, old ipods, iriver, etc. WILL BE BURIED since a long time) and this is obviously not good for the producer point of view (less in-$$$).
But if someone is able to decode and implement new functions it should not be considered a criminal !!! In fact the people who discovered good hacks (that they do not want to reveal) USES them but don't share them, so for you criminal = the one who share his knowledge to help other not-so-good-at-hacking people to hack devices.

What I ask is not to COMPLETELY share but to help people to know how stuff works, but you don't want to do event his. To be coherent the discoverer of new hacks SHOULD NOT USE IT for itself too ! But to create an open firmware there is the need of the community so I think that someone should make a new post with ALL the new discoveries making the archos series finally OPEN, just like rockbox. If you fear the law use a nickname and post anonimously from an anonymous internet point/university/public service so that no one can be judged by authorities.

If archilles know what he says, I can only admire him and I will sustain him even without any evidence.

AV500 was released in 2005, so the time is really come to open up those damnet TMS processors !

And did you noticed that here: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5480&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=cramfs&start=160 someone released cyphering keys of 604 ???

Waiting for October 1st...


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