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 Post subject: Charbax and Andy W.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:41 am 
Lsitening toListening to these two on the same thread, is the Archos equivilant of Good Cop/Bad Cop. Charbax will never ever tell admit that there is a single thing wrong with anythign Archos puts out, and that anything anyone (including Apple) makes is absolute garbage. Then Andy W. comes in the same thread and gives you the real scoop. He will honestly tell you if he thinks something is buggy or not. If another company makes a promising looking product, he will tell you it is promising looking. On the other hand, Apple could make a 4" touch widescreen, portable DVR, with a 500 gig HD, all in a .25" thick unit, and then go on to sell the unit for $5.00, and Charbax would tell you what a scam Apple is running on you.

In short Archos does make some good prioducts and some dissapointing. If you want to know the truth -- listen to Andy W. You will always get a non-partial view of anything Archos makes, on here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:04 am 
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I totally agree with your point. It's at times frustrating to post on this forum only to be told that something is "crap." It almost becomes funny because before I post about a competitive product I know it will get a negative comment. And usually the point will be something or other that Archos supposedly does which another product doesn't. You can always pick and choose certain functions to make any device look better than a competitor. "This toothpaste brightens your teeth 65% better!!!"

Any thinking person based in the real world must realize that "crap" would not sell in the numbers that Apple/iPod can boast. If DRM and itunes is "crap" then what is Archos Content Portal? When Apple has created "crap" it doesn't sell. They have the good sense to listen to the market and to make simple-to-use products and excellent customer service. That's obviously what the public wants. They don't just pull their products out of a hat. Today's announcement truly reflects their thinking. They listen and they respond. The iPhone is too expensive, we'll lower the price! People like the iPhone design but don't want the phone, you got it! So simple! Nothing earth shaking but you can bet there will be lines at the Apple stores tomorrow morning. Disclaimer: I don't own any Apple products or stock nor will I be in line.

I'm still waiting for my "crap," the Raon Everun. But of course all UMPCs are useless junk.

I appreciate the folks like Andy W and others that have a realistic point of view. And though two of my four Archos products failed on me, I don't think Archos devices are "crap."

I keep coming back to this forum because, with one big exception, most input is worth reading.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:09 am 
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At least charbax doesn't make up fake user names to prove a point.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:01 am 
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Apple and UMPCs are crap. What more do you want me to say? That sure they are crap but I like to play solitaire and open my Word docs on a 4" Windows XP tablet? Or that I think iTunes is great that it sells limited amount of music from select corrupt partners at fixed per-download-only price and that a whole range of locked products are made to only work with that walled garden content? I don't think that I'm the only one that thinks Apples strategy is a crap one. Not that I'm saying Apple doesn't make a profit from their crap. A lot of people buy crap cause they think they need the crap.

Anyways, I'm not trying to impose my point of view in this forum. I respect that others think that crap products are good. And I'm not using crap in the first degree, watch the crap video http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13569_22-156220.html

By the way, I just came back from the IFA consumer electronics show, and most companies that used to do UMPCs aren't even showing them anymore, the UMPC thing is over and Microsoft are probably working on a very much upgraded Zune and that's good for them and I'm looking forward to see what it'll be. Although I think it's impossible for Microsoft to make it in a way that will impress me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:25 pm 
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I just heard that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are working together to make a new product that will impress you. They are very concerned! And all iPod and UMPC owners are trashing their beloved products because they are crap!

Wow, this is some bizarre stuff. I wonder if you believe what you say or are you just trying to be controversial.

You need to tell HTC and Samsung among others that the UMPC thing is over. They are waiting to hear from you. :lol:

suproach Uh, is that your real name? Mine is, shhhhhhh, Alan Kayser as in alankayser. Nice to meet you. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:47 pm 
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No, my real name is Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:35 pm 
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Hi Mike, Alan here.

My point was not to knock Archos. My point is that some folks think Archos and only Archos products are worth buying or posting comments about. That point comes back time and time again, through statements like calling Apple products "crap" and all UMPCs "useless." It's just silly and no longer even worth commenting on. I think if you put the Archos label on an iPod then some people would think it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Gotta be because I say it is!!! Not trying to impose a point of view? But I ask, "Why comment on this thread at all?" Isn't that imposing?

:?

Realistic and thoughtful comments are always interesting. Shameless shilling for Archos is not. :p


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:29 pm 
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So true

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:40 pm 
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suproach/Mike

Have you heard of the Silverthorne Intel project? A low energy dual core processor surely boosting possibilities for the UMPC market. I guess we should add them to the list of manufacturers (HTC, Samsung, Sony, Raon, Microsoft Origami, Kohjinsha +) not knowing that the UMPC thing is over. ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Yes along with all the nameless Chinese people still building them. Hmm maybe we should tell them to stop.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:24 pm 
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Yes ipods are not my cup of tea, but i disagree the umpc is crap. I wouldnt say no to one anyways. But the umpc is not a comparable product to the archos / ipod. The umpc is just a laptop thats been shrank down, being able to play dvd / mp3s is just a bonus. I dont think in the world atm there is a place for them, but in probo 5-10 years when wireless broadband is everywhere something like this will be essential.
Ipods on the other hand, do what they say on the tin, they promise to play music which they do very well. For me thats not enough, i find the gui very annoying and the reliablity of the products ive owned shocking (im not even gona mention itunes pos). BUT ipod seem to release a finished product nearly everytime (excluding the over rated iphone), archos on the other hand leave all the beta testing to its owners, this is where they will never be in the same place as apple. If archos could release a FINISHED product (or close to) without all the bugs (or far fewer) and sort out their customer service they could have a shot at being higher up the food chain.
roy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:37 pm 
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Yes. Spot on Roy!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:14 am 
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Roy

Good job. Your points are well taken. I do think it's very early in the life of UMPCs. I'm not sure it will take 5-10 years but perhaps within this decade UMPCs will be much more of a marketable device. IMHO that's where Apple is headed. Combine the functions of the iPod/iPhone/iTouch and you've got very near to a UMPC.

Your thoughts on Archos are spot on. It took developers to get the Archos PMA430 up a grade, which was left behind by Archos. They clearly abandon their products when a new generation gets released. And the amount of early fixes do indicate that users are the beta testers. That's ok for software but unacceptable for hardware, especially given their poor customer service. But their products are cutting edge and they are to be admired for their efforts to bring new technology to the market. They just need to do a better job of it before the devices are in the hands of the consumer. Simple to use products and good customer service is where Apple shines and Archos needs work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:34 am 
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roylovelock wrote:
in probo 5-10 years when wireless broadband is everywhere something like this will be essential.


I'm sure also we'll all have pocket computers in 5-10 years, I'd say even in 1-2 years. But it most probably won't have any software on it that looks like Windows XP/Vista, that's what this conversation I think comes down to.

The OS and Interface on the ultimate pocket device for leisure and for profetionnals will I think be Archos/iPodtouch/Zune/N800/mobilephone/blackberry/pda like much more then it will ever need to be XP/Vista.

Today, If you absolutely need a specific XP/Vista application on a "portable" device, then UMPC have a very limited temporary use. I for example might want to do some live HSDPA headmounted camera video streaming, which today might work better using a UMPC then using for example a Symbian or Java software on a Nokia N95, N800 or such. But the point is everything most people would ever need to do can be programmed and optimized for embedded systems much better and much cheaper then they can for a system running the x86 XP/Vista.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:44 am 
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I agree with charbax, The iPodphonetouch sounds much more to me like a dumb smartphone (a smartphone without the apps), than a UMPC.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:09 am 
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Charbax wrote:

The OS and Interface on the ultimate pocket device for leisure and for profetionnals will I think be Archos/iPodtouch/Zune/N800/mobilephone/blackberry/pda like much more then it will ever need to be XP/Vista.


Im sorry mate i totally disagree with you here, all those OS barring PDA are too restrictive to the end user, If the restrictions are removed to the end user and the os are made configurable as in window / linux with the ablity to add programs and generally play with them then thats gona be the winner. What im thinking is you carry your pc around with you all day (as you do with media players now) then when you get to work / home you dock it and have a full size pc again, the os on there atm arnt capable of this and i cant see them ever opening them up for the end users. I cant imagine us having towers / laptops in the future so a full os is probo where its gona go. How i would do it would be to have the full os whilst on mains or dock then when out and about a lighter version with basic browsing, media playback... but also have the ablity to run the full os if needed when out and about.
just my thoughts anyway.
roy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:54 am 
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Palm is good enough for me. My treo 600 was my favorite phone, I ran lots of apps, but at that time cingular data was ridonkulous.

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 Post subject: Re: Charbax and Andy W.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:23 pm 
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Missionsparta wrote:
Lsitening toListening to these two on the same thread, is the Archos equivilant of Good Cop/Bad Cop. Charbax will never ever tell admit that there is a single thing wrong with anythign Archos puts out, and that anything anyone (including Apple) makes is absolute garbage.


I usually tend to look up to Charbax's opinion as he is the one out in the field and looks at all the prototypes, mostly before we hear about them a year before. He has seen many units that use the same OS, and sees trends from certain companies. Lets face it Missionsparta, Charbax called the Cowan way before anyone else did and told us it would be crap for the very reasons they pointed out in the review.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:11 pm 
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Some good points here, but we must remember that the average Joe/Josephine out there may not want what we want. Many Archos folks like myself want something we can fiddle with. But in my experience at CompUSA selling computers, PMP, cameras, etc. the average person wants a simple device that's easy to operate. And that's where IMHO Apple may fill the bill with the iPodPhoneTouch. Certainly it won't be a UMPC with a full unrestricted OS. That's not Apple's way of doing things. They want to charge you for everything. But they are throwing a lot of stuff out there, maybe to see what sticks. Then within x amount of time they'll have the Apple folks praying at the feet of SJ for the "ultimate" device which will be more like a Nokia N800 (with hsdpa/WiMax, or some such) with a harddrive and a phone and be the size of an iPod. With the new 5mm 80gb hd this may come sooner than later. Carry it with you all day, then at home just dock it to your ultra expensive Apple widescreen TV/monitor and you are set to go. Think what the master can charge for that!!! And he'll tell the faithful it's the FIRST with this blah blah blah...

And Charbax is correct, XP and Vista are 500 pound budgies not really optimized for pocketable devices. Origami anyone?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:34 pm 
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alankayser wrote:
the average person wants a simple device that's easy to operate. And that's where IMHO Apple may fill the bill with the iPodPhoneTouch.


I'm not sure you can really say Apple is more user friendly. Selling more devices might not necessarilly mean it's more user friendly, though it might mean it has a more attractive hardware design, a fashion statement and a user interface that appeals to non technophile users.

Archos could probably fix this attractiveness gap by simply updating the firmware to provide a copy of the smooth scrolling for both the browser and for scrolling in lists of files. Already Archos is trying to get more appeal to the non-geek consumer by coloring the Gen5 in that fashionable white color. Although I'd prefer that scrolling effect to be optionnal in the settings. Cause I still think there is a difference also between attractiveness and usefulness of a user interface. 3D desktops of Vista and Linux Beryl might look cool at first, but you quickly can measure that users are more effective using normal 2D graphics for desktop environment for most usage scenarios. The same kind of thing can be said about consoles, PS3 should provide the most attractive realistic gaming, still people want the Wii which provides more real gaming instead of fake gaming.

Am I saying iPod Touch and the iPhone provides a fake pocket multimedia experience. Not really since the tasks those are handling are so basic, you cannot really fake music/video/photo playback no matter how many attractive animations you put in there between each menu to impress the techno newbies. Although when it comes to more then being an Mp3 player, then I think that iPod is faking it, and for being more then a phone, the iPhone is also faking it. Ultimately, the early adopters will be disappointed when they realise how limited the hardware value actually is. Already early iPhone adopters feel cheated by the exceeding 2000 dollar contract that they signed for on a hardware and a service plan that offers them a situation that is not future proof.


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