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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:53 pm 
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Have fun playing video at VGA resolution and limited bitrate on your Microsoft PDA using an Intel ARM chip (thus re-encode all your videos to make sure they work), while we use much cheaper implementation of an ARM processor only for menus and other basic control mechanisms and hand over to the DSP "ALL video formats" and ALL video resolutions, ALL bitrates and ALL sources without using a Microsoft PC with x86 to re-encode anything in the process.

FUD over to you.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:18 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
Have fun playing video at VGA resolution and limited bitrate on your Microsoft PDA using an Intel ARM chip (thus re-encode all your videos to make sure they work), while we use much cheaper implementation of an ARM processor only for menus and other basic control mechanisms and hand over to the DSP "ALL video formats" and ALL video resolutions, ALL bitrates and ALL sources without using a Microsoft PC with x86 to re-encode anything in the process.

FUD over to you.

How do you manage to get your DVD movies onto your 704/60X without using a PC? What is this odd derogatory fixation you have with x86? We're you bitten as a child by a Pentium? I don't use Microsoft. You should know this by now as I've pointed out many times over the last few months.

I do re-encode all my videos if I want to put them on a portable device (e.g. my 604 wifi) as a matter of course to get the file size down. I encode to the nearest correct aspect ratio for 640x480. These videos play great on both my PPC and my 604 wifi. Remember, I have both devices on my desk in front of me right now.
Re. cost. I can get a N560 for not much more than a 4GB 605 with the browser and podcast plug in, but that is now on a new thread.
FUD? I haven't posted any FUD. I've posted facts that you seem unable to counter in a sensible and unemotional manner. Like others have said, this competitor forum just gets degraded into an emotional fact less slagging match with Archos fanciers. Completely ridiculous and pointless.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:26 pm 
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mitchelln wrote:
Re. cost. I can get a N560 for not much more than a 4GB 605 with the browser and podcast plug in (...) I've posted facts


For you, £120 for the Archos 605 WiFi 4GB with podcast and cinema plugins is "not much" cheaper than £289 which you just paid for your N560 PDA. And you say proudly that you're posting facts.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:37 pm 
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Yes, Mitchelln, don't you know that Microsoft and Intel are shaking in their collective shoes because Archos has this little pocketable PMA430 on the market? I can see it now, Bill Gates running around screaming, "Oh no, we must compete with Archos so let's develop a UMPC. Hahahahaha!!! This is so funny!!! I'll bet he was so scared he cried into a $1000 bill.

Now I have a PMA430 in my pocket at this very moment (sorry no tennis balls) and though I love the little thing I'm sure, no positive, that Bill and Intel are not spending too many sleepless nights worrying that Archos will, contrary to local opinions, overtake the market any time soon.

But there's something that, IMHO, has and will continue to change the market...here goes: iPod and iPhone. Why? Because most folks, unlike the geek squad, want KISS. Yep, and iPods and iPhones are simple. And stylish. And simple and stylish drive the market. I don't own either one, but just open your eyes and you'll clearly see what people want. They could care less about what drives these things...ARM, DSP, DaVinci blah blah yatta yatta yatta. And, sorry Archos and Nokia N series, I just don't think you'll be selling billions of your devices any time soon.

So, as stated, Smartphones and PDAs aren't appealing to the mass market but I quote "Combining Entertainment, VOIP, IM, 800-pixel wide touch-screen browser and a seamless wireless broadband Internet connectivity into one pocket product will make it mass marketable (aka ARCHOS)" does. Wow. I'd like to see the numbers on that one. OK, Smartphones and PDAs raise your hands. Whoa!!! Now Archos and Nokia N770/800. Uh, oh. (oh, and I do believe that UMPCs do combine these features, and that the Raon Everun will fit in a pocket, ok so maybe 46.23% of mass market pants pockets and 74.261% of jacket pockets)

It's really interesting that once again anything posted here in opposition, or merely as Steve and I have pointed out suggesting that UMPCs are developing into potentially appealing alternatives, gets these statements and numbers like "99% is wasted" thrown out to see if they stick. Do you know that humans utilize just 15% of their brain, but less in others?

Perhaps Steve/Chippy and Mitchelln will join me in saying, "WHAT THE....?"


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:02 pm 
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alankayser wrote:
Perhaps Steve/Chippy and Mitchelln will join me in saying, "WHAT THE....?"

WHAT THE indeed. I tell you, I am quite shocked by the responses to my posts. It's just indefensible ranting with the odd bit of "proof" or hearsay snipped from some website or wikipedia thrown in. It's so utterly pointless and unproductive.

I have a 604 wifi which I take to the gym. It's the best device for that because if I took my PPC and broke it then I'd lose the single point for all my contacts, my eWallet containing my PIN's, passwords etc. I use my Fujitsu P1610 tablet when on business trips because I need more than a PMP and don't want to carry round a lot of extra weight. I nearly bought a UMPC for that, but the first gen ones just weren't quite there yet. I use the best device for the job I want to do. Simple as.

I have been designing and coding portable devices from the Z80 days onwards (including ARM). I have no allegiance to a particular technology or vendor. I've used 'em all over the years. When starting a new project I select the best fit for the job. More over I have the commercial experience of how well devices do in the real world. What people like and dislike and also how much its costs to do this kind of stuff. Technical fan sites tend to focus on just the guts and coolness.
I endeavour to remain open to new ideas and learn. Life would be so boring if we stopped learning wouldn't it?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:06 pm 
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I just wish alankayser and mitchelln to have a lot of fun with their Microsoft Windows and Intel products. Aren't they like the best software company and the best processor company in the world anyways. No need to even compete with them and no need to suggest that they might be building their empire on unfair competition that keeps prices and margins high and other monopolistic tactics. Anyways our society is really free so new ideas and different ways of doing things can emerge.

And finally people, even though some of them like wasting money on useless gadgets like the iPhone and UMPCs, will in the end chose the better technology. Cause technology works like the theory of Darwin. Dinosaurs might be ruling the world right now, but sooner or later, I say it's gonna be soner like during the next couple of years, Intelligence will emerge as the winner.


Last edited by Charbax on Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:08 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
mitchelln wrote:
Re. cost. I can get a N560 for not much more than a 4GB 605 with the browser and podcast plug in (...) I've posted facts


For you, £120 for the Archos 605 WiFi 4GB with podcast and cinema plugins is "not much" cheaper than £289 which you just paid for your N560 PDA. And you say proudly that you're posting facts.

Erm. I think your conversion calculator is a bit out. Plus there's delivery on top of whatever the real figure is and the as yet undefined wait for the 4GB version to be released. I'd also have to buy a new dock to get USB host and a charger. I get both of those with the N560. Nowhere near the 3 times cost is it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:12 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
I just wish you and mitchelln to have a lot of fun with your Microsoft Windows and Intel products. Aren't they like the best software company and the best processor company in the world anyways. No need to even compete with them and no need to suggest that they might be building their empire on unfair competition that keeps prices and margins high and other monopolistic tactics. Anyways our society is really free so new ideas and different ways of doing things can emerge.

And finally people, even though some of them like wasting money on useless gadgets like the iPhone and UMPCs, will in the end chose the better technology. Cause technology works like the theory of Darwin. Dinosaurs might be ruling the world right now, but sooner or later, I say it's gonna be soner like during the next couple of years, Intelligence will emerge as the winner.

I am not a Microsoft fan. I am not an Intel fan. I use an AMD X2 in my Linux based PC. Plus I still don't get this Intel X-Scale nonsense. An awful lot of those ARM based devices you keep banging on about are X-Scale. What's wrong with Intel? Are Samsung any better? Toshiba? Has Intel thrust their chips down the throats of unsuspecting mobile device vendors? No. Intel has a far from monopolistic share of the embedded market. They don't even have it all their own way in the Desktop market either thanks to AMD.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:40 pm 
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I gotta love it! Hey buddy, dinosaurs ruled this planet for millions of years, humans for about 20,000 or so. Intelligence rules. Wow, you must be kidding. Do you live in a hole? Your arguments go counter to each other. And if intelligence RULES, then anyone who doesn't own an iPod must be an idiot because iPods RULE the planet and have done so for quite some time now. And if intelligence rules, why is Bush in the White House? And if intelligence rules, why are we still burning fossil fuels when electric cars were usable 100 years ago? And if intelligence rules why are people starving while we sit around contemplating the minutia of various devices that serve no real purpose other than to make us feel good? And if intelligence rules why don't you let people have their say without demeaning them?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:52 pm 
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The answer is that the way those world problems can be fixed is by better using better technologies. Ramping up the mass production of $100 Laptops, $100 Desktops and $100 PMPs within the next two years is going to help solve the democracy, energy and world poverty problems.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:56 pm 
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alankayser wrote:
I gotta love it! Hey buddy, dinosaurs ruled this planet for millions of years, humans for about 20,000 or so.

Heresy! I saw in the paper recently that humans and dinosaurs did most definitely co-exist and the Earth is only 3000 years old (I think it was built by the Egyptians under guidance from some guy with a beard). It's definitely depicted in some US southern state museum I read about.
Oh, hang on, I think you're making some sort of point about non blinkered viewpoints here... :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:01 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
The answer is that the way those world problems can be fixed is by better using better technologies. Ramping up the mass production of $100 Laptops, $100 Desktops and $100 PMPs within the next two years is going to help solve the democracy, energy and world poverty problems.

Are they making these $100 laptops edible then? Man, that's one expensive sandwich. VoIP and YouTube are gonna make all religions understand each other in an conveniently pocketable format? ARM chips and Archos are going to halve US and Chinese electricity consumption?
Sorry if I sound a bit facetious here, but making batteries and chips are two of the dirtiest industries on the planet and this response is just barking mad!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:16 pm 
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Sorry, more thoughts.

I look at lots of forums. I have kids and a wife but do spend my morning hours checking the forums that I enjoy. This is the only one where a moderator, or anyone, spends all their time degrading comments that are posted. Yes, there's lots of back and forth discussion on other forums like UMPC sites, but comments like "stupid lies" are nowhere to be found but here. This is really uncalled for and downright nasty. I think an apology is in order. If anyone is being full on negative it is the guy we all know. The posted comments rarely, if ever, say anything negative about Archos, and I know that both Mitchelln and I are Archos owners and fans. You are the one that feels the need to negatively comment on any competition. I'll say again, my friend, if you don't want people to post anything but kiss ass comments about Archos then shut down the competitors section, cut anything that doesn't smell like anything kissy Archos, and be done with it. Otherwise get a life and allow people to post their thoughts without demeaning everything they say.

It would be funny if it wasn't so damn irritating.

I hesitate whenever I want to post anything, and measure each word, because I know what will happen once my comments are posted. This doesn't happen anywhere else.

I will also say that your nasty comments are starting to make me think negatively about Archos! You are doing Archos a disservice.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:25 pm 
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You sure measure each word when you are posting your BS right here.

Who cares if mitchelln was being stupid or lying when he wrote Windows Mobile PDAs could play Youtube. I'm not going to apologize for wasting my time answering to that BS again and again.

Anyways, just get your Raeon Everun or any other UMPC and have fun or use it for your mobile activities as you wish, and post your experiences if you want. I'm not to know if your job, educational or recreational activities involve using a certain Windows application which would make it practical for you to purchase a portable Windows device today.

I'm not going to waste my time any longer to have the last word against alankayser or mitchelln debating the differences between ARM+DSP and x86+Bloat in terms of which philosophy is going to conquer the mass market of pocket gadgetery in the coming months, if any.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:05 pm 
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I really wish that $100 computers could save the world. But you must be kidding, right? Democracy? If anyone thinks that $100 computers will bring democracy to China, Saudi Arabia, Iraq or such then you haven't read a newspaper or seen the news lately. $100 PCs are not going to be accessible to most of the world because most of the world can't even afford a decent meal every day, let alone a PC. A PC is not even on the minds of folks who scrape for food every day of their lives. And it's very naive to think democracy will be the eventual outcome of cheap PCs, though I see where you are going with this. But using China as a model I know quite well, non-democracies will be sure to use access to PCs as a means to control information, not to open it to the masses. Attempts are being made to do the same right here in the US, so I have no doubt that the same will occur in both Democracies and elsewhere.

But this is going down another path, and I for one am tired of the path we've been on. Political discussions are for elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:06 pm 
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Lets all get back to being adults here. There really is no need for name calling, or flaming. We can all get along , but everyone has to work at it. This includes maybe considering other peoples feelings before posting and not posting irrelevant topics that really have nothing to do with the PMP market.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:06 am 
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i'm not up on the latest like everyone else, but it seems like there's so many new products coming out, that it's worth waiting for a shake-out and the concomitant drop in price that follows.

but a umpc sounds right. the only thing that would sway me towards another pmp would be extraordinary battery life, though connectivity might be attractive. a umpc would also give me the ability to play my mame games. internet connectivity is almost moot since every hotel has a business center, and until every city is wired, connectivity seems pointless to me. in japan, my friend said no one uses their 'puter,,,they use their cell phone.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:02 am 
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UMPCs are a pretty expensive way to play games. Anything decent will set you back at least $1000, probably a lot more. As far as a shake out, most likely not for a long time. PMPs are finding their way in the marketplace, and with the Nokia N800, Archos 605, iPhone etc we are seeing more useful convergence in very small packages. But for a UMPC to be useful it must have a larger screen, more powerful processor, etc. So by its very nature it has to be large enough to accommodate all of this since basically you are squeezing the guts of a laptop into the form of a UMPC. So its been tough to find the right consumer, since laptops are more powerful and less expensive, and in some cases not much larger than a UMPC. You can tell from Microsoft's definition that there is no real UMPC concept. Lots of devices are being called UMPCs but that's because the definition is too broad:

* Windows Vista Home Premium OS
* Approximately 7ÔÇØ diagonal display (or smaller)
* Minimum 800 x 480 resolution
* Approximately 2 pounds
* Integrated touch panel
* WiFi- and Bluetooth-enabled

Many so called UMPCs do not meet this spec. The Raon Everun runs on XP, has a 4.8" screen, and weighs 1 pound. So it fits maybe three of the six. But the Archos 605 is 800 X 480, has a touch screen and WiFi. That's three of six. So which is a UMPC and which isn't? I guess it comes down to different strokes for different folks.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:30 pm 
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" 605 WiFi supports 720p HD video while UMPCs are not powerfull enough for that. "

OQO model 2 has HMDI out on the unit and on the docking station and can support 1080P ;)

When you think of the price of a OQO think of the longvity compared to an archos which is for now $300 and then oh lets make a new one. Another $300 and then yet another $300. If I had the money on me right now I would jump on OQO 2. :-) My two cents.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:57 pm 
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I tried the Oqo2, it took me aout 5 minutes to find it really useless.

See my video here: http://ces2007.video-blog.eu/oqo/

With no touch-screen, it has this unusable mouse button thing. Not very fun. And quite bulky, quite heavy and hugely expensive.

The VIA chip inside of the Oqo 2 might be a bit better in terms of power than some of the AMD Geode and Intel ULV chips in other UMPCs, you can also supposedly play Quake3 for example on the Oqo 2. Just I think it's a waste that they didn't put a touch-screen on there. And I think the slide-out keyboard thing is less good than making it thinner and provide an external foldable full sized keyboard with a way to simply put it on a table without having to carry around a huge craddle.


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