Forum.ArchosFans.com

Unofficial Archos Support Forum
It is currently Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:09 pm

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 81 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:52 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 716
Well, I knew as soon as I posted the above that there would be a negative reply. It's funny how some people can only see the Archos emblem in front of them and everything else sucks. But fanboys begin to sound ridiculous if they comment negatively on everything but their favorite. I have no problem with Archos and what they have accomplished, but let's be realistic...the Archos product line is not the holy grail that some would make it out to be.

If all we get are negative comments on "competitors" why have this in the forum at all.

As for me, I give up trying to post information here that might be of interest to folks on this site. Every post is followed by how bad the product is and how great Archos is. With this in mind there is no reason to continue.

Goodbye.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:40 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 716
I would like to thank some folks for requesting that I not give up, as stated above. I think my reasons were quite clear as to why. Below I will try to reply to some of the statements made about UMPCs and their usefulness. Again, as I've stated before, I have no problem with Archos. I have used my PMA430 just about every day since I got it almost three years ago (I think) and without even one glitch. It's a terrific product, though no longer supported by Archos. I had a 604WF which I recently returned because I'm considering a UMPC and did not see the benefit of the 604 any longer. That's where I am right now.

The UMPC I am thinking about is the Raon Everun. There have been a series of videos posted taking a good look at this product and the reviewers consider it to be (my words) groundbreaking. Is it perfect? No. But considering what it can do and the price, it seems good for what I want it to do. Now on to some replies to comments that I find annoying and remind me of what the present occupants of the White House are doing...throw out enough BS and people will start to believe it. I know that this forum is run by Archos "fanboys" which is fine. But this should not lead to being anything less than objective about Archos products. There are other products on the market that are excellent and meet the needs of their users. To say that iPhones suck, or Cowon isn't any good, or all UMPCs suck, is downright embarrassing. If all some folks want to do is promote Archos then just block out all posts that don't sing the praises of the 605 or whatever. At least it may not sound so ridiculous as it does now. Every single time I have posted something about the Raon it has been followed by a series of negative replies referring to how awful and useless UMPCs are.

So here I go...


"Basically Windows XP or Vista is useless for on-the-go or TV use. It wastes 5-10 times more battery power than an Archos in full operation, be it browsing or watching videos."

I wonder where these numbers come from such as 5-10 times. And UMPCs are able to use Linux and Tablet Edition as well as XP or Vista. In fact a dual boot is possible on the Raon. TV use? I wouldn't buy a UMPC just for TV use. Also, the Everun has been tested out to at least 4-5 hours.

"UMPC weight 4 times as much as the Archos 5G"
The Everun weighs 490g. Does the Archos of equal hd size weigh 120g?

", it is 2-4 times as large in terms of size,"
OK, the Archos is (smallest version) is 122x82x15. The Everun is 170x83x25. By my math that is NOT 2-4 times larger. And remember that the Everun needs no adapters and has a replaceable battery.

"costs 4 times as much"
Well, an 80gb Archos with needed plug-ins and adapters will probably cost close to $400. The Everun fully loaded (60gb hd/6 gb ssd) runs $1099. My math tells me that 4x400=1600.

"is at least twice as slow in terms of accessing for example some multimedia file, hard disk capacity is much lower cause no UMPC has space for a 2.5" HDD"
Watch the posted videos for answere to these assertions. The Raon also has a 6gb ssd. Video on the Everun is excellent as far as I can see on the posted videos, though full frame You Tube is pretty bad. But, I doubt very many UMPC consumers are too worried about YouTube.

"forget about recording any video on such steaming UMPC hardware"
Again this statement is put to rest in the posted videos. There is a 4mps/720x480 video shown running effortlessly.

"operating the Interface of Windows XP or Vista with your fingers is impossible and useless to try"
Not according to the reviewrs and posted videos on YouTube. And they are saying this with an Everun in hand, not just baseless statements and opinions.

"you won't ever use any of the Windows applications most probably, if you need to use such applications you might as well buy a 200$ Linux laptop."
Thanks for telling me what I will and won't use and what I should buy.

Well, that's it for now. And please remember that I did not post information about the Raon Everun as a comparison to the Archos. They are different products meant for a different consumer base. The comparisons were posted by others. I am just trying to point out that the Roan Everun seems to be an excellent prodcut on the horizon, or at least a groundbreaking one.

OK, now we'll get the rebuttals.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:17 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:54 am
Posts: 782
Location: UK
Good points, very well put!

In my view the whole point of this Competitors Section is so that forum members can keep an objective view of what's going on and judge any potential Archos upgrade, switch to a different format type, make of PMP or whatever they might be considering with the benefit of others comments about performance/potential etc. of the alternatives out there.

But that will only be valuable if those comments are objective, not coloured "fan boy style." Sure, we all have our preferences (I hate Apple for example but would be the first to admit the iPhone is a very slick device that has, obviously, taken the "PMP/internet on the move" world by storm!) so in reality, being objective is sometimes very difficult.

I support anyone who makes the effort to try and keep this (and all other sections of this Forum) objective and thus the very useful/interesting place it is to come and visit. If we go down the fanboy road I for one would give up Modding!

_________________
Andy W


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:19 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 716
Andy

Thank you for the positive comments. My reason for posting information about the Raon Everun was exactly how you put it, merely to let others know about an interesting new product. I never intended it to be a comparison with the Archos. I know that the price and size will not satisfy the hardcore Archos fans. I am an Archos fan myself. But, taking a realistic look at the Everun may give some people an alternative since it offers flexibility that UMPCs specialize in. And remember that the UMPC market is very new, and the price of the Everun is in itself a breakthrough. A top of the line Archos G5 with the adapters, plug-ins, and large hd would set me back about $500, under half an Everun. But I think the non-replaceable battery is a problem, at least for me. That's where Archos worries me. What if the battery lasts maybe a year. Does Archos have the track record of customer service that would make anyone think they will replace the battery? Or keep the price of replacing it low, or offer quick service to replace it? I think that we all know the answer to that one. So the only alternative for quick replacement may be to buy a G6!!! I know about the expansion battery, but that means more size, weight, and $. That's just my opinion, but thinking about the battery has killed my interest in the G5 series. Also, with a UMPC I can use MS Office 2007 (especially OneNote), any apps I need on the run, and not have to carry around adapters or worry that I need a plug-in or whatever. And that's not a knock against Archos. Keeping the base price low and charging for extras isn't a bad idea. I think only previous owners of Archos products will be annoyed by having to pay for Opera, but only if Archos makes it clear on the packaging that plug-ins are needed for a complete experience. A UMPC offers the possibility of using any browser you might like without having to pay extra for it.

So, sorry for such lengthly posts but I just wanted to make a point. As for me, I'll be waiting for the Everun and will keep posting as the voice of reason. And let's not forget that this section of the forum should remain open to competitive products and folks with an open mind.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:44 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
Why don-t you simply buy a thousand dollar Raeon and come back to us then when we all have got our 200 dollar Archos 5G widgetised HD video-on-demand experience.

Nobody other than a couple of compact Windows fanboys have tested the Raeon yet. The kind of user that get excited seeing the Windows start menu on a smaller device and who easilly ignore the fact x86 computing is not made for portable use compared to what arm can do in terms of optimization of ressources, lower price, lower power consumption and so on.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:24 am 
Offline
Archos User
Archos User

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:56 am
Posts: 147
Charbax wrote:
Why don-t you simply buy a thousand dollar Raeon and come back to us then when we all have got our 200 dollar Archos 5G widgetised HD video-on-demand experience.

Nobody other than a couple of compact Windows fanboys have tested the Raeon yet. The kind of user that get excited seeing the Windows start menu on a smaller device and who easilly ignore the fact x86 computing is not made for portable use compared to what arm can do in terms of optimization of ressources, lower price, lower power consumption and so on.


Did you even read alankaysers reasons? obviously not

Im a member of a number of forums and you are the worse Fanboy Ive ever seen.

You obviously have shares or some financial interest in the Archos company.

_________________
A2 defect.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:07 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
I don't want to waste time argumenting again and again. If you want to buy a Raeon, you're welcome to do that, and come back and tell us what you think then. It's probably better than the larger Oqo (no touch screen), Samsung (7"), Sony (huge) and other UMPCs (although Raon is really only 100 grams less than Samsung and Sony). Probably also better than the Digital Cube similar UMPC cause I don't think Digital Cube is going to be able to integrate HSDPA.

I'll just answer to this:

alankayser wrote:
", it is 2-4 times as large in terms of size,"
OK, the Archos is (smallest version) is 122x82x15. The Everun is 170x83x25. By my math that is NOT 2-4 times larger.


Archos is around 150 thousand cubic millimeters, while Raeon is over 352 thousand cubic millimeters, that is based on those measurments you posted there. So yes, the new Raoen is over twice the size of the new Archos, and I haven't even checked it there is supposed to be different sized Raeon batteries and which provide which performance, cause they probably have different sizes and different specs are posted.


Last edited by Charbax on Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:39 am, edited 7 times in total.

Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:24 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
here, I'll waste my time answering to another few of alankayser's points:

alankayser wrote:
It wastes 5-10 times more battery power than an Archos in full operation, be it browsing or watching videos."

I wonder where these numbers come from such as 5-10 times.


Just measure the weight of a UMPC battery, and measure the Watts per hour consumption when doing such a thing as playing a video compared with an Archos and the DSP chip that is doing that work in it. A UMPC probably is consuming 10 times more Watts doing that simple job.

alankayser wrote:
"UMPC weight 4 times as much as the Archos 5G"
The Everun weighs 490g. Does the Archos of equal hd size weigh 120g?


Archos 5G with 20GB memory weighs approximately 152 grams, less than a third of the weight of the Raeon. I'm talking Archos 605 WiFi 4GB with a 16GB SDHC card. It's like the difference between having one tennis ball in your pocket or having 3 tennis balls in your pocket. One solution is definately much more pocketable.

alankayser wrote:
"costs 4 times as much"
Well, an 80gb Archos with needed plug-ins and adapters will probably cost close to $400. The Everun fully loaded (60gb hd/6 gb ssd) runs $1099. My math tells me that 4x400=1600.


Archos is $199 suggested retail price, probably it'll be even cheaper when resellers push the price further down on price comparison websites, nobody is forced to buy the plugins and accessories, there is plenty of things to do with the basic unit, such as watching thousands of hours of on-demand videos over the Archos Content Portal, playing most of your DivX films, playing Mp3 just as an iPod.

alankayser wrote:
"forget about recording any video on such steaming UMPC hardware"
Again this statement is put to rest in the posted videos. There is a 4mps/720x480 video shown running effortlessly.


Absolutely not put to rest. You can dream on if you want to record video from any source using a Geode AMD LX-900 processor. Unless you are planning on getting a 200 dollar Archos TV+ 80GB to do the external video encoding for your Raeon.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:23 am 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 996
Location: UK
So why didn't you just put this stuff the first time instead of the daft emotional you did originally? Can't you see that this is why you get labelled a fanboy? The answers you finally "wasted your time with" put across your real opinion and raised some good points.
Charbax wrote:
here, I'll waste my time answering to another few of alankayser's points:

alankayser wrote:
It wastes 5-10 times more battery power than an Archos in full operation, be it browsing or watching videos."

I wonder where these numbers come from such as 5-10 times.


Just measure the weight of a UMPC battery, and measure the Watts per hour consumption when doing such a thing as playing a video compared with an Archos and the DSP chip that is doing that work in it. A UMPC probably is consuming 10 times more Watts doing that simple job.

alankayser wrote:
"UMPC weight 4 times as much as the Archos 5G"
The Everun weighs 490g. Does the Archos of equal hd size weigh 120g?


Archos 5G with 20GB memory weighs approximately 152 grams, less than a third of the weight of the Raeon. I'm talking Archos 605 WiFi 4GB with a 16GB SDHC card. It's like the difference between having one tennis ball in your pocket or having 3 tennis balls in your pocket. One solution is definately much more pocketable.

alankayser wrote:
"costs 4 times as much"
Well, an 80gb Archos with needed plug-ins and adapters will probably cost close to $400. The Everun fully loaded (60gb hd/6 gb ssd) runs $1099. My math tells me that 4x400=1600.


Archos is $199 suggested retail price, probably it'll be even cheaper when resellers push the price further down on price comparison websites, nobody is forced to buy the plugins and accessories, there is plenty of things to do with the basic unit, such as watching thousands of hours of on-demand videos over the Archos Content Portal, playing most of your DivX films, playing Mp3 just as an iPod.

alankayser wrote:
"forget about recording any video on such steaming UMPC hardware"
Again this statement is put to rest in the posted videos. There is a 4mps/720x480 video shown running effortlessly.


Absolutely not put to rest. You can dream on if you want to record video from any source using a Geode AMD LX-900 processor. Unless you are planning on getting a 200 dollar Archos TV+ 80GB to do the external video encoding for your Raeon.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:24 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 716
Well, these responses don't surprise me. If the fanboys aren't being paid by Archos then they should be. I suggest that the competition section of the forum be removed and replaced by an "I love Archos and nothing else compares to it" section. Or perhaps "Do not post anything here because we will immediately reply as to why the Archos is better" section.

It's really funny that it was pointed out that the Raon guys are just fanboys!!! Oh my, they are fanboys but you are not???????? The two guys, Hugo and Steve, that have posted about the Raon have a total of over 20 UMPCs to compare the Raon to. They find it an excellent device. Do you have anything else to compare the 605 to? In point of fact, you don't even have a 605 at all!!!

And you need to take a couple of math lessons. The cubic measurements will indeed make it appear that the Raon is quite a bit larger, but in fact it is 48mm longer and almost exactly the same as the Archos in the other two dimensions. Your balls(?) in the pocket analogy is way off. The Raon is almost the same size as a PSP. You keep comparing it to the smallest version of the Archos. The Raon has a 60gb hd and a 6gb ssd. Compare it to an Archos of the same hd size. Also, add the necessary adapters that are needed then tell us the size and weight difference.

On the other hand, please don't. I am really tired of these fanboy replies.

I will take your advice, though, and come back if I get the Raon Everun. I am truly frustrated at this fanboy attack every time I post some information about the Raon Everun, which I don't even consider in competition with the Archos. I have said this before, but it doesn't seem to register with the fanboys. I have never once attacked Archos, and have mentioned time and again that I, too, am an Archos fan but not a rose colored glasses fanboy.

Oh, one final thing. Please keep a list of how many of your "probably" and "in the future Archos will..." become reality.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:11 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 716
One more thing, sorry.

The non-replaceable battery. I did notice that my question was ignored, perhaps in fear of the truth?

What will happen when all of those Archos batteries start to fail? Yes, I know about the adapter, which by the way adds size and weight maybe like putting twelve tennis balls in your pants, or something like that lol.

Anyway, do you fanboys plan on running down to your local Apple, er sorry Archos, store for a replacement/repair. Oh, you say there aren't any Archos stores. Well, I guess the next best thing is to ship it back to Archos. Shhhh, the little secret that I've heard is that Archos isn't too good with repairs. Shhhh, don't tell anyone. Now imagine if they get inundated with battery replacements. Kiss your 605 goodbye for quite a while, or maybe buy a backup!!! What a great idea! Let's see. 605 + 605 + adapters + plug-ins = Raon Everun!!! Hah, just kidding, fanboys, don't get your bowels excited.

Seriously, that may actually happen at some point. And Archos (ok, here is my one negative statement) has a reputation (well founded) of ignoring previous generation models and poor customer service. And they certainly will charge for the new battery and a service fee. Are the low prices an indication that they are using the Apple throw away product model? Look into my eyes, you are getting very sleepy...when the battery fails you will cluck like a chicken and run out to buy a G6. (Apple is already planning an iPod which is essentially an iPhone without the phone and with a large capacity hd, OS X, wifi, etc. So look in the trash for lots of thrown away iPods with non-replaceable batteries.) I just can't see myself buying a 605 because of the battery issue. Any device I buy for portable use MUST have a replaceable battery. No adapters, please. Adapters are just one more thing to forget in a hotel room or leave on a table somewhere. And, fanboys, they add size and weight that you like to not talk about. Let's see, the adapter is (guessing) 80mmx20mmx10mm. Oh my goodness, that's 16000mm. Man that's huge. It's like the size of a watermelon in your pocket! (Sorry, we Americans don't know the continental system very well.) :lol:

So there you have it. Oh, the Raon Everun does have a very expensive replaceable battery.

OK, fanboys, your turn to tell me that the battery is wonderful and will never fail.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:59 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:51 am
Posts: 994
Location: CANADA
alankayser wrote:
One more thing, sorry.


OK, fanboys, your turn to tell me that the battery is wonderful and will never fail.


The battery is going to fail. At the rate I use mine, it will fail in 1 year, or at least be down to 70%. The thing I don't like about the battery dock, is I read that it will start to charge the internal battery when connected. I'm not 100% this is the case, but if this is true, then when the internal battery is kaput, the battery dock will be of no use either.

I'm sure someone is going to peel a 605 apart early and let us all know how user replaceable it is. Then, I will simply go buy an aftermarket lithium Ion battery and do it myself. I will not be sending it in for repair for only a battery replacement. I don't even buy new laptop batteries. I just take the old one apart and replace the cells. Much much cheaper. You just get raped on proprietary batteries and they are all the same inside. And the cells that still work are great for C size maglight. You put two of them end to end with a tube insert, it bumps the voltage up to 7.4 volts and you can really get some kick ass light for a long time out of them. Just make sure you charge them properly!

The fact that the Archos still uses screws to hold the case together makes me feel a whole lot better than something like the IPhone that I heard snaps together. I'm always afraid of marring the case prying it apart.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:27 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 716
For anyone out there who still believes in being open minded, especially relative to UMPCs, here is a link to Hugo Ortega's Raon Everun video review. Hugo owns some 20 UMPCs so I do believe he is 1) not a Raon fanboy 2) open minded about different manufacturers 3) open minded with respect to various Linux and MS OS systems relative to their use (or non-use) on a UMPC 4)he compares UMPC to UMPC, not to PMP.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/RaonDigitalEVERUNInkShow.aspx

And there is a list on the UMPCportal homepage with reasons to love and/or hate a UMPC. It will give Archos fanboys lots of ammunition.

And to honeymonkey. This may be a good battery solution for you, but I'm sure you realize not everyone wants or is able to follow your advice. Plus it will kill your warranty. My old Archos AV340 has a non-replaceable battery that is easily replaced by taking out a few screws and sliding in a new battery. But though it works well it is a bit cumbersome while on the move due to needing a small screw driver and being sure the battery leads are properly aligned. But it does work, so maybe the 605 will be similar. You make a good point, though.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:22 pm 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:51 am
Posts: 994
Location: CANADA
alankayser wrote:
And to honeymonkey. This may be a good battery solution for you, but I'm sure you realize not everyone wants or is able to follow your advice. Plus it will kill your warranty. .


I'm talking after the warranty is up. I don't usually crack cases before then, but after a year, all bets are off. Most of the time it is an easy solder in job most people could do as long as it does not involve too much disassembly. I have always found that sending something away to be repaired no matter who the company is, it never comes back the way you sent it.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:06 am 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 716
I guess to most folks the battery replacement is a non issue based on the sales of iPods. It certainly hasn't hurt them, has it? Perhaps the smaller form factor will outweigh the battery replacement issue. We'll see. It's just a personal preference I suppose and for most shoppers not a deal killer.

IMHO Archos is being a bit shortsighted. Yes, folks like yourself can easily replace the battery. Susie Shopper isn't going to do that. She'll be annoyed and send it in for replacement. Then, as with any repair service from any company, she'll wait. And wait. Then pay. But we can be sure that the G6 will be available by the time the batteries go bad.

BTW, the upgrade (12 hour) replacement battery for the Raon Everun is currently (pre-production) listed at $199. Yikes.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:18 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
alankayser wrote:
The two guys, Hugo and Steve, that have posted about the Raon have a total of over 20 UMPCs to compare the Raon to.


Exactly put, they are UMPC fanboys and Chippy even writes a theory of why he won't even consider comparing with Texas Instruments or other ARM based products. UMPC means Ultra Mobile Personal Computer. Archos, Nokia and iPhones are computers and definitely ultra mobile.

Steve and Hugo compare UMPCs, that's very fine of them to spend their time doing those great video reviews. The point is x86 based UMPC is just a desperate attempt from Intel and Microsoft to try and keep their control on the computer industry, because the Texas Instruments, ARM, DaVinci, RISC, DSP and other standards for embedded applications, hardware built for doing specific software tasks, thus much more efficient in terms of size, price, performance, power consumption... The use Embedded systems is not as general as x86, and is harder to code to, but once the application is coded for RISC/DSP using ARM it is much more efficient than what you can run on a general purpose x86 chip. That is why most of the Consumer Electronics world is using Embedded systems and not x86.

That's it I'm not going to answer Alan Kayser anymore. Or maybe just one more:

alankayser wrote:
And you need to take a couple of math lessons.


I think you are in need of the math lessons. I can fit more than two 605 WiFi in one Raeon, and I can put more than 3 605 WiFi on a weight against 1 Raeon, I can power an Archos for 20 hours with one Raeon battery, I can buy more than 3 Archos for one Raeon, if they are optimized I can load apps much faster and more effectively on the Archos than on the x86 platform of UMPCs. Power consumption (thus size and price) to do the same task is simply 10x or 20x more efficient then UMPC.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:08 am 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 716
I fully expected to get flamed as usual. So, I post the below as written by Chippy (Steve) on UMPCportal. He's been labeled above as a UMPC/Raon fanboy. He seems to be quite the opposite of a fanboy to me. Judge for yourself...

Oh, BTW, it's nothing personal so I won't refuse to acknowledge anyone's input on a COMPETITORS forum. (BTW, I defy anyone to fit two 605s inside an Everun. The Everun, if anyone cares to read this, is 48mm longer than a 604, 1mm wider, and 5mm deeper for a comparable hd size. So, that's 48mmx1mmx5mm larger. Is there an Archos with dimensions of 48x1x5? Correct me if I missed that tiny 605.)

This is copied directly from Steve's post on UMPCportal. So some folks don't get too upset, I've switched the order to put the negatives first. Otherwise it's untouched.

Oh, I don't own a UMPC, but I do own three Archos products, and I have nothing bad to say about any of them or about Archos. And I surely don't have anything bad to say about products that I don't own.

So, again, judge the fanboys for yourself:

REASONS TO AVOID UMPCs

* Keyboard options are limited. UMPCs are not designed for inputting large amounts of text.
* Despite UMPCs being very efficient, their size means that large notebook-PC sized batteries are too heavy and big. As a result of including small, lightweight batteries, their life can be under 2 hours. [The best UMPCs with extended batteries, however, can last well over 6 hours.]
* The screen is small: an 800x480 screen size is not optimal for productivity work. newer screens have 1024x600 resolution but still, this can be limiting.
* They don't fit in most pockets. If Ultra-Mobile to you means 'pocketable' then I'm sorry. UMPCs are not pocketable.
* They are not user friendly. The flexibility of a full operating system comes with the downside of a large learning curve and high possibility of bugs. The user interfaces for desktop operating systems where never written for touch or small screens and can cause problems.
* UMPC's are not consumer priced. UMPCs have not moved into the mass market yet and as a result, prices remain similar to high-end smartphones.
* They do not replace a notebook. For productivity users that input a lot of data and require the use of high-end productivity applications, UMPCs are not as good as a notebook.
* They do not replace a smartphone. A smartphone is a pocketable device that is optimized for voice activities and operation using one or two fingers. A UMPC, due to its larger size and over-complex operating system can not replace a smartphone.
* UMPCs aren't available. You can't find many examples of UMPCs in your local electronics shop. Despite there being over 50 different models to choose from, they remain in the hands of specialist online resellers

REASONS TO LOVE UMPCs

* They're very small. Most UMPCs come in at well under 1000gms and some are now under 500gms. That's, at least half the weight of a lightweight notebook PC and in most cases, much much less than half the size (volume)
* They are full PC's. UMPCs are not PDA's! They use miniaturized PC components and therefore are capable of running desktop operating systems like Windows XP, Vista or Linux.
* They are relatively powerful. In comparison with traditional mobile devices they have a lot of power. Graphics co-processors are standard and the base CPU is a far more complex calculating machine than that in any pocketPC or smartphone.
* Wireless connectivity. Through WiFi, Bluetooth and even cellular-data, UMPCs are able to connect to the Internet just as well as any notebook or laptop PC. With USB, audio and often, docking ports, further connectivity options are not restricted.
* Compared to traditional mobile devices, the storage options are better. Even the smallest 5mm-high hard drives are able to store 60GB now. SD, CF and even PCMCIA card slots are possible.
* They are more flexible than single-use devices like mobile phones, MP3 players and Video players.
* They enable new usage scenarios. Sofa, bed, bus, car, plane, train. Places that are often difficult to use a notebook suddenly become more enjoyable with a UMPC. Lie back and surf!
* Designs are more exciting. A notebook is a notebook. A UMPC comes in many styles and designs. 4,3" pocketable up to 7" with keyboard. Sliding keyboard, folding keyboard, thumbkeyboard and even touchscreen keyboard. A UMPC is arguably more stylish and exciting than the standard notebook form-factor.
* They are cheap! Yes, compared to Ultraportable notebook PCs, UMPCs are generally cheaper. $799 for a Q1B. $799 for an Everun. $799 for a Cathena. Compare this to the prices for Ultra Portable Notebooks!
* They are among the most energy efficient computers in the world and can provide far more battery life per watt/hour than a notebook PC.
* They generally include touchscreens which opens up new possibilities for operating software and entering data.
* They are often near-silent. Some UMPCs don't have any fans at all.
* They are modular. Through docking stations and accessories you can turn your UMPC into a notebook, desktop, TV/PVR, navigations device or carpc.
* For users that don't use productivity applications or don't input a lot of data, UMPCs can replace a notebook and allow a users to trade down from a larger smartphone to a stylish feature phone.

.

For more detailed info on UMPCs, have a look at the UMPC Buyers Guide 2007. You'll find images, videos and links that will help you learn more about this new segment. And don't forget, please drop your comments below. Unfortunately you have to register to comment (thanks Mr Spammer) but its a quick process and you can do it here.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:43 am 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 10:01 am
Posts: 1647
Location: Kent, UK.
Nice thread - reminds me of MS v. MAC, or MS v. Unix, or anthing v. another thing !!

Can you not agree to disagree ??

Anyhow, Charbax, what do you mean by
Charbax wrote:
I can buy more than 3 Archos for one Raeon, if they are optimized I can load apps much faster and more effectively on the Archos than on the x86 platform of UMPCs.


How do you optimise apps on an Archos ??


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:11 am 
Offline
Archos Guru
Archos Guru

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 996
Location: UK
CBers wrote:
Nice thread - reminds me of MS v. MAC, or MS v. Unix, or anthing v. another thing !!

Can you not agree to disagree ??

Anyhow, Charbax, what do you mean by
Charbax wrote:
I can buy more than 3 Archos for one Raeon, if they are optimized I can load apps much faster and more effectively on the Archos than on the x86 platform of UMPCs.


How do you optimise apps on an Archos ??

He has a special Archos supplied magic wand ;) Sorry, I couldn't resist!
Seriously though, the only thing that may be faster on the Archos is video playback as it has full on hardware acceleration. However things like Opera and Acrobat are always going to be much faster on the UMPC. The rendering speed of the PDF viewer on the 604 wifi is a joke. Plus the UMPC gives you the ability to open text files and offline HTML 8)
Honestly, I think this direct comparison between Archos devices and UMPC's is pretty moot. They are vastly different products aimed at different markets and wallets. I can't see Archos investing millions on a full on UMPC type device. They are more into basic convergence and this is their core market.


Last edited by mitchelln on Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:11 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
Posts: 7052
Location: Copenhagen
Apps on the Archos are thought through even before the Texas Instruments processor are designed specifically to perform in doing those tasks. While x86 platform is just a bunch of processing cycles put up there and totally are wasting lots and lots of ressources cause the software is then patchworked afterwards, to kind of pull some cycles out of the bunch x86 transistors to do all kinds of "multi-threaded" tasks. Read about Embedded RISC of the Texas Instruments in the Archos, Nokia and the Samsung in the iPhone versus x86 of Intel and AMD at Wikipedia :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC

Quote:
The reduced instruction set computer, or RISC, is a CPU design philosophy that favors a reduced instruction set as well as a simpler set of instructions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture

Quote:
Because of their power saving features, ARM CPUs are dominant in the mobile electronics market, where low power consumption is a critical design goal.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_DaVinci

Quote:
A typical multimedia system such as a digital video recorder or digital camera can be split roughly into two pieces: control and media. The control portion handles tasks such as memory card or hard disk access, user interface, and networking, while the media portion covers tasks such as encoding and decoding of audio and video. A general-purpose processor performs well in control tasks, but all but the fastest of these processors are not sufficiently powerful for intensive media-related tasks such as real-time, high-quality video encoding. A DSP, on the other hand, is superb at the repetitive, easily parallelizable media-related tasks, but usually performs poorly in control-related jobs.


The idea behind DaVinci is that by using both a general-purpose processor and a DSP, the control and media portions can both be executed by processors that excel at their respective tasks. The integration of these two components into one chip simplifies the system design and allows for more efficient communication between the two components.


One day, I'll try to make a page like this one: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone explaining why UMPC fanboys are chimps.


Last edited by Charbax on Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:23 am, edited 5 times in total.

Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 81 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited