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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:37 am 
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I think a UMPC would be a better option over an archos 605.

i originally bought an archos av420, loved it and still love it.

However, now archos are throwing hardware out every 6 - 12 months.

Knowing the history of archos, once a new machine is out software updates for older machines is just completely stopped.

why would i invest in a machine that will for one now charge me to add more features when i can get a umpc which will do everything the archos does + more and if i need to add more features all i have to do is download more software for free.

also it is obvious that archos's strategy is to get people to keep upgrading hardware... i can bet anything that the features mentioned for the 605 could have easily been implemented into the 604 wifi, but they wont add them because they want people to upgrade to newer hardware. i think that is plain unfair.

therefore i will be going down the umpc line where i know all web pages will work, all media will stream from the browser, i can have media providers, i can watch all my media + I CAN UPGRADE ITS SOFTWARE FOR FREE TO KEEP IT FUTURE PROOF AND DO MORE LIKE WORD AND POWER POINT AS BONUSES.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:59 am 
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Right on, brother (or is it sister?)!!!

I have nothing against Archos, and still love and use my PMA430 and 604WF many hours every day. But, the UMPC seems a better choice now for all the reasons you mention. I can watch video, stream video, play music, listen to XM, browse the internet (and listen to music while doing so), work in Office apps (and listen...), have WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS, print, and not have to ever worry if the device needs plug-ins to operate to full capacity.

I've heard all the cons for UMPC...too large (Raon same size as a PSP), too pricey (hey I spent over $700 for the PMA and almost $400 for the 604WF, not including adapters and plug-ins), can't put it in a pocket (try putting the 605 in your pocket with all the adapters connected, which are integrated into the body of a UMPC), low battery running time (the Raon is at 7 hours), blah blah blah.

I can keep laying out $ every time Archos puts out another G (which I've already done four times), or buy a UMPC and get everything I want and need right now without waiting to see what G6 will bring.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:24 am 
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>> I think a UMPC would be a better option over an archos 605.

aren't they like £1000 (~$2000) though? not sure about that :? but... maybe a palm or something like that? even a decent mobile...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:39 am 
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I think UMPCs are much worse than Archos 5G because:

- At least 4-5 times more expensive (800-1000$ vs. 199$)

- 4 times as heavy (+600gr vs. 150gr)

- more than twice as bulky in terms of size (most UMPCs are more like 4-5 times larger in cubic centimeters)

- Very low battery power time compared to Archos for video playback and anything else using WiFi

- Running very hot and noisy because of built-in cooler cause the processor in UMPCs are not fanless.

- A UMPC running Windows XP/Vista consumes about 5-10 times more Watts per hour on the same size screen to run a video or anything else, like browsing the Internet on WiFi

- Archos 605 WiFi provides 800x480 on a 4.3" touch-screen, best pocket browser ever.

- Archos provides special first in world implementation of full screen view of Flash videos.

- Archos interface is made for on-the-go use with large buttons, touch-screen interface designed for using with fingers while Windows XP or Vista even tablet or Media center edition are useless for on-the-go usage.

- A UMPC is not powerfull enough for anything else than running solitaire and word documents. Forget about Photoshop, Video editing, music software, even flash animations and videos run bad on UMPCs cause they are simply using underpowered x86 processors.

- 605 WiFi supports 720p HD video while UMPCs are not powerfull enough for that.

- Archos records video in Mpeg4 and with online Electronic Program Guide which you can forget all about if you have a UMPC.

- Archos 5G has instant on wake-up from sleep mode. Cool to be back on the Opera browser online to check something out in a second or to resume some music or videos instantly.

- Did I menchion UMPCs were hugely expensive, hugely huge and hugely heavy? Yeah I did, but it's worth pointing it out again.


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 Post subject: umpc maybe
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:03 am 
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I agree and disagree about getting a umpc. My case in point is if I can truely get a 605 wifi 4gb a 16gb sdhc and the internet plugin for close to 300 dollars
that is pretty impresive. The key for me will be the flash part of the plugin. If it is a newer flash that will play flash games,videos,etc. Then I will get the 605 wifi but if it turns out that the flash is somehow LOCKED to the plugins then count me out. There is alot of free flash content on the web. To me if it's true flash means I don't really need the widgets(except bittorent maybe),internet radio,etc. The UMPC can truely do more than the 605 wifi but
I personally don't need all the extra plugins so I guess I agree with charbax on that. I mean even if you get a umpc you cant record video but to me that doesnt matter. All I can say is that the flash better kick a$$ or it's umpc time for me. A 20 GB solid state wifi pmp machine for around 300 bucks works for me.


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 Post subject: Expensive to drop!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:29 pm 
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All the UMPC's I've seen are pretty useless. What madman decided to try to run Vista on them needs their head examined! They are expensive toys at the moment.
You're much better off with some thing like my Fujtisu P1610 Tablet PC. It's a great device that has enough grunt to do real work, has a gorgeous 1280x800 touchscreen and makes a great media device. It's the size of an A5 paperback and weighs a kilo.
However, I would never say it fills the role of my 604 wifi. The tablet PC is:

1) Expensive to buy and to risk damaging.
2) A very desirable thing to steal making you worry all the time.
3) Too big to be a truly portable media player.

So, if I'm on a business trip I take my tablet and when I go on holiday I take my 604 wifi.

The device I have trouble understanding is the 704. It's about the size of my tablet without the flexibility and seems to me to qualify for 1-3 above.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:37 pm 
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704 and 705 simply is Archos trying to make the most compact 7" touch-screen WiFi product possible, and already it is hard to make it more compact than the 704 is, cause 7" could be the screen size needed to comfortably watch whole movies at extended arms length, something to do with 45 degrees portion of ones perspective that the screen size should be to have a real cinematic experience, to be psychologically absorbed in the movie. A 4.3" screen is better for watching shorter videos at extended arms length or to get the cinematic experience you need to bring the screen closer to your eyes then at extended arms length.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:48 pm 
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UMPCs:

Obviously the UMPC is intended for a different consumer, but with Raon, OQO,Sony, and HTC hard at work on UMPCs, they become more attractive as alternatives to PMP devices.

Yes, they are more expensive, but when you buy all the plug-ins and adapters for the Archos 605 it narrows the gap. The Raon is priced from $700 to $1000. A decent Archos setup with adapters, plug-ins and comparable hd size (the Raon has 30 or 60gb plus a 6g ssd option) will cost over $400.

The Raon Everun weighs 490g, not 600 and you don't need to carry any adapters or extra batteries or cables

The Raon is the size of a PSP. OK size for cargo pants or suit jacket

The Raon and OQO have heat dissipater features which keep them cooler, probably more so than my Archos PMA430 which gets quite warm.

The Raon has a 7 hour battery life, 11 with the upgraded battery

The Raon screen is 800x480 4.8"

The Raon is a touchscreen which makes it convenient for on the go

The Raon is XP, no need to pay for extra plug-ins, you can download most anything for free, has all the connections on the device.

The Raon has WiFi, Bluetooth, and you can dl any browser that suits your fancy. Plus it can be used as a GPS, VoiP, Skype, supports hsdpa

The Raon has VGA out, an onboard slot for the touch pen, automatic rotation from landscape to portrait


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:08 pm 
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Well i see this has initiated a big discussion...

i would like to clarify some of the points made...


1. UMPC is more expensive - yes i agree they are, but you are buying something that is going to work all the time. if you compare that to archos if you purchased a 604 wifi you are now put in a situation where the only way to add streaming flash in the browser you have is to purchase a whole new device and on top of that plugins. this is archos's ways, they ditch their old product support, and hence once you buy a 605, if they want to add more features they will just release a 6G device at that stage which you will again need to fork out more money to buy. therefore as a future proof investment and looking into the future and how much you will end up spending in total ... a UMPC wins it for me

2. regarding the inability to record video on the umpc... i again agree but that is just something i do not need as i have a av420 for the past 4 years now and i have recorded 2 times using it... and if i ever need it i can still use my old device on the move or my pc at home to record.

3. i am awaiting the HTC shift as my UMPC and the idea here is taht the prices are a bit too high now... i don't plan on purchasing for atleast 6 more months as lots and lots of umpc's are in the pipe line and the price battle is already on ... so you will be getting proper machines for good prices very soon trust me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:14 pm 
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Yeah and in 6 months you'll have some touch-screen WiFi HSDPA Archos for 99$ at WalMart with unlimited music and films subscription plan, Archos will also be even more compact.

So basically UMPC will always trail far behind, and well, if you want to believe having Windows XP on a half kilo "portable" device is any good, then suit yourself.

I've tried many UMPCs and I think they all suck, might as well buy laptops especially a 100$ Linux laptop if you want a "portable" productivity machine.

Archos is doing mainly entertainment, and is doing it better than anyone else. Whining about Archos doing too much innovation too fast and releasing new products every 6-9 months isn't going to matter. As well as Archos isn't mainly selling to the same little group of customers who already bought previous generations, 99% of Archos customers are people who never bought a PMP before.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:48 pm 
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Quote:
As well as Archos isn't mainly selling to the same little group of customers who already bought previous generations, 99% of Archos customers are people who never bought a PMP before.


That is why they don't care about the customer support! But, how many new guys out there? What is the price for a brand? If I know that is the situation, why I need to choose a big brand?

There is many many small company from China and Korea ramping out lot of PMP in a very very low price. Yes, they still can not compare to Archos now, but who know later! In fact, Archos's product is make in China too! Now, there is a similar iphone look and function selling cheap in China and I won't be surprise there will be a Chinese 605WF which sell half price and also NOT FIRMWIRE UPGRADE for new function!
:!:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:12 pm 
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Charbax

We all know you will defend Archos to the death, but you need to be a bit more objective here.

"All UMPCs suck???" As compared to what? They, like Archos products, are a niche product. They are not laptops. If UMPC buyers wanted a laptop they surely would buy one, as they are cheaper than most UMPCs. So, saying they may as well buy a laptop is not supportive of your "they all suck" argument. The point of a UMPC is to have a device that's small (ultra UMPC - OQO, Raon, Sony), can hold tons of documents, give you the option of Power Point, Excel, Word, Outlook, calendar, appointments or whatever applicationns you may want to bring with you for a presentation or simply to work without lugging around a 5 pound or more notebook. Plus with Bluetooth you can have GPS access which is pretty handy for the road.

What UMPCs are not advertised as are multimedia devices. They come up on this forum as an alternative that is becoming more attractive as the prices drop. Will UMPCs ever be cheap? Probably not. But I think that you are off the mark in thinking that Archos will be selling a fully loaded multimedia device at Walmart for $99 any time soon. But I can see UMPCs selling at Best Buy or CompUSA for $500 within the next year.

Again, keep in mind that when I list the features of the Raon I'm only giving my opinion as to how they stack up against the Archos. I have nothing against Archos and have been happy with their products since my first one some 5 years ago. I don't ever whine about the lack of features or the fact that they dump support or come up with new products. That's commerce! I just think that UMPCs offer an alternative for those folks who can afford them and have a use for them.

And, having had some experience with the Sony UX390, I can tell you for sure that they don't all suck. Would I buy a Sony? Not at $2000+. But the device is VERY cool. We at CompUSA sold quite a few of them to business folks and never had any complaints. In fact they made their owners quite happy!


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 Post subject: customers
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:21 pm 
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Charbax,

It is very possible that their could be a revolt against Archos(a french revolution :). We have seen it at digg.com. If the 604 wifi users spread around how bad the archos is for not supporting their customers and if for some reason they don't deliver all their promises on the 605 coupled with new competition from other vendors. They could have an impact on Archos's bottom line. Archos is counting on a lower price that will generate new customers which may work but they should not under estimate being black listed by geeks. I also want to say that you seem to be very biosed toward Archos(hmm). I think people have real concerns about being forgotten. All they are asking for is a firmware update really. I mean it is very possible that the 604 wifi could not have handled flash and so they had to update their product line because they saw a need by their customers for flash. I don't buy that not enough people where downloading the firmware and that's why their is no new firmware. Perhaps Archos could give everyone a small new feature to their 604 wifi to make them happy. I think the best idea would be to grant people who just bought a 604 wifi or got one within the last year a small rebate just so they won't jump ship. In the end the reviews by third parties will be the deciding factor. Regardless of price if the flash is slow and the video stutters the flash would be a useless feature(we have seen that on the nokia n800).


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:12 pm 
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Charbax wrote:
- At least 4-5 times more expensive (800-1000$ vs. 199$)


You really need to start adding the plugins and accessories to the base price when making such comparisons... almost any UMPC offers the functionality that is optional on the Gen5 out of the box. What you wrote is like saying a Mercedes SLR sucks because you can by a Mini Cooper for 20x less cash... what if I really want a Benz?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:30 pm 
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ETM wrote:
What you wrote is like saying a Mercedes SLR sucks because you can by a Mini Cooper for 20x less cash... what if I really want a Benz?


Hey, you can have a 34K Mini if you want

http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?rtradfordf.htm

:o


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:46 pm 
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mitchelln wrote:
Hey, you can have a 34K Mini if you want

http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?rtradfordf.htm

:o


Thanks for that. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:05 pm 
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Yep, you can't say that a Benz sucks because a Mini is cheaper, gets better gas mileage, etc. It just depends on what you want, and in this case what you can afford.

Comparing an Archos product to a UMPC is apples to oranges. Archos products are intended for multimedia use. UMPCs go far beyond that. So you are going to pay more for a UMPC. But saying UMPCs suck because they are in part bigger, heavier, more expensive than a 605 aligns with the Benz-Mini analogy. OK, so Shaquille O'Neal sucks because he's bigger, heavier, and more expensive than Allen Iverson. It would also follow that all laptops suck because they are...well you get the point.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:19 am 
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guys, guys give charbax a break, one comment after another debating him, he is just laying out he's opinion here, which has so far, i dont know about the rest of you guys but he has answered and been of help all over the forum sssooooo much, i see at least one comment of his on each topic, now that we all have different opinions in which we wont all agree, but come on give the guy some credit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:48 pm 
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For those who think that all UMPCs suck please take a look at UMPCportal.com and read the review of the Raon Everun. Yes, I've read all the negative comments about UMPCs being too large, too hot, too expensive blah blah blah. This review will put most of those comments to rest. But please don't order one because I'd like to be the first on my block to have one.

And for those who think the iPhone sucks, wake up and realize it doesn't matter what you think because it has taken the consumer market by storm. Thus, every phone and mp3 player and PMP will be trying to clone the iPhone. Just take a look at dapreview.net to see what's going on. I'm sure the pre-Christmas market will be flooded with iPhone look-a-likes from Korea and China. And now we already are hearing about a G2, the NanoPhone. And, no, I don't have an iPhone. But I must admit the design is quite remarkable. What I wish I did have is Apple stock.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:35 pm 
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That guy at UMPCportal really thinks x86 based processors is the way to go today, well I think he's wrong by definition. x86 is not suited today for pocket use on 4" screens.

The only reason UMPCs are on the market is because Intel and Microsoft want to keep dominating the computer market and they get scared when they see cheap and portable computers being introduced by companies 1000 times smaller than they are.


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